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In August 2009, PWInsider.com covered the NWA Legends Fanfest in Charlotte, NC, which featured a special discussion and Q&A with Ric Flair and Harley Race. We are reprinting our coverage in honor of the passing of Race earlier today.
We are on site at the NWA Legends Fanfest in Charlotte, NC. The convention will open with a special Q&A sessions featuring the two men who headlined the first-ever Starrcade event in November 1983, Ric Flair and Harley Race.
There is a big backdrop promoting the forthcoming Ric Flair "Wooo" lottery game, which will debut for the North Carolina Lottery next month.
Chris Cruise welcomed everyone to the weekend. He said there were some true legends tonight and everyone gave Flair and Race a standing ovation. Cruise talked about the history of the first Starrcade event, discussing how it was the beginning and end of different NWA championship eras as well as the first branded Supershow event using closed circuit technology over several states.
Race was asked about the responsibilities of being the NWA World champion. Race said that in that era, traveling the world used to be a much harder hassle. He said that one had to be able to go to wherever you were sent and take whoever you were facing and then deliver the absolute best you could deliver. He said that he felt he did that as did the person sitting next to him. Flair said that he met Harley in 1973 before he even came to Charlotte the first time. He said that growing up in Minneapolis, there was a place called the Chestnut Tree where a lot of toughs congregated. He said that Race, who was teaming with Larry Hennig at the time, walked into the place and Flair told his friends someone was going to get their ass kicked. He found out later from his father that Race was stabbed in a fight there and that made him an even bigger hero.
Flair said that there were names you idolized when he get into the business for their work ethic like Race, Ray Stevens, Dick Murdoch, etc. and talked about meeting Race and riding with him to Denver when he first broke into the business. He said Race drove 100 miles an hour in a snowstorm and 100 miles an hour was normal for Race to drive no matter what. He said that they were going over mountains, drinking at 100 miles an hour in a rental car. He said that as his career grew, he saw Harley became World champion. Race set the bar "so high" for the champion because he went into the buildings with whoever he was facing and took them to a new level. He said Race "was like God" and always came to the buildings dressed nice and said Race was what he wanted to be.
Flair said that sometimes you went to venues to face people who weren't world class performers but if you were the World champion, you had to take them to the level you needed them to be. He said that if you were the World champion, "you were in the Mack daddy seat" and had to carry the load.
Race was asked about when Flair's name began to be circulated around as a potential World champion. Race said that it wasn't long after he debuted because Flair had a style and demeanor right away. He said there were eight members who could put you in the race for the title and when Race heard Flair's name bandied about, "I couldn't recommend him enough" as Flair could take guys who were limited to good and great matches. Race that anything complimentary Flair said about him so far, if you reverse them, they fit Flair.
They were asked about their first-ever meeting in the ring. Race said they wrestled so many damn times, it's like the first one was the last one. He praised Flair's class and work. Flair said that the first time he wrestled Race was St. Louis. He didn't believe Race was the champion at the time. He said that he used to chop guys really hard and Race was one of the few who would say hit me harder. In return, he would then give it back. Flair said it was a learning process and imitated how Race would call spots in the ring. Flair said after five minutes in the ring, he was exhausted. He said he picked up things from Harley and now Triple H has taken them from him.
Flair said Race was the first person to do the vertical suplex and even did it to Andre the Giant. He praised Race for his innovative moves like suplexing someone outside the ring and going to the floor together, going over the top, etc. Flair said he was told like Dory Funk Jr. and was told if he wanted to get over in the business, he had to get over in St. Louis. Flair asked how and Funk told him to take bumps like Race because the ring was like concrete and no one bumped in it.
Flair was asked about the Crocketts putting him in contention for the NWA title. Flair said he used to bug Race and Dusty Rhodes about being the World champion. Race finally told him he had told him all he could now and it was up to him. The Crocketts told him in 1980 he was a possibility. He was sent to St. Louis as part of the process and it was a really political journey. Flair said when he left Charlotte, it hurt the territory a bit but in the long run made it a bigger company. Politically, the NWA was run by multiple territories so when it came time to talk about who would be champion, it was about skill, presentation and being able to draw money. He said that you had to be skilled and you had to be skilled with political allies. He said it was a much tougher business back then.
Race was asked about working the Charlotte area. Flair said he has the relationship they have because as heels, they were able to travel together in the territory. Race said they traveled a lot together and when he came in as NWA champion, putting them together was what it made it work the best. Fans wanted to see Flair become World champion and they were disappointed when it was time for him not to be there.
Race said that Flair came in during a period where they all wrestled seven nights a week, then did everything Race did and more, because Flair was still a young man when he was given the belt. Race said that he set a bar that Flair couldn't go lower than, so Flair ran right at it and went over it and still today runs at it. He said Flair was the greatest thing to ever walk into the squared circle. Fans gave Flair a standing ovation and he got very emotional, tearing up. Race said that the way the fans just responded, that's the type of respect Flair gets around the world. Flair said that he felt like he was just inducted into the Hall of Fame again and thanked everyone.
Reid Flair was brought up on stage, wearing a suit jacket and hugged Race and his father. Flair said that Reid's heard all the Race stories before. Flair said there is always someone who wants to be a wrestler and Race has a great school. Flair said having the opportunity to be around someone like Race and learning what's "inside" that helps people become great wrestlers and that's why he sent Reid to live with Race for several months.
Flair told a story about being in Japan at Budokan Hall with Race wrestling Jumbo Tsuruta. They wrestled for an hour and at one point, Race was inadvertently dropped on his head and everyone was scared. Race returned to the locker room and he was mad. He told Flair he was going to teach Ric a lesson about the business. He took Flair to Giant Baba's locker room. Tsuruta came to Race and thanked him for the match. Race asked Jumbo if he asked him to suplex him. Jumbo said, "No but crowd like." Race popped him and put him down on his rear, then told him not to ever do that again. Two years later, Flair as champion toured All Japan and the NWA sent Harley as his bodyguard to protect the title. Harley was in Ric's corner as he defended against Tsuruta and the entire time, Race called for Jumbo to suplex him again and again. Flair said he took like 50 German suplexes.
Ric was asked about his role leading into the first Starrcade. Flair talked about the entire show being built around him and that the show did well but would have done even better if on the day before and Thanksgiving Day, there wasn't 12 inches of snow. He said the feeling of all the fans pulling for him to win the World title was awesome. Flair said they did a lot to build to the show over the year, including Race putting a bounty on him and other territories played up the storyline as well. He said Race was at a point in his life where he wanted to go home and relax and promote St. Louis. Flair said it was a great moment.
Race talked about being offered to walk away from the NWA title and go to the WWF right before Starrcade in 1983. Race said that there are things and moments where you have to decide and it has to come from what you, as a person, truthfully believe. He said that he couldn't believe in what they were trying to get him to do and had too much respect for himself, Flair and the wrestling business. He said that he couldn't do it and Flair didn't deserve to have that happen to him. He said Flair had the NWA title for a short period and deserved "his just try to go everywhere in the world with it." Race said that cheating Flair out of that run wasn't an option and if he had to do it again, he wouldn't "change a damn thing."
Race was asked if he was offered money. He said there were certain stories that weren't meant to be told in front of an audience and to be recorded and replayed over and over. Flair said he talked about some of it in his book and said that had Harley not come to Greensboro, it would have changed the face of the business and the business wouldn't be where it is today. He said the evolution of the NWA and WCW would have been very difficult. He said that only Race knows the truth of what happened but he doesn't think anyone involved in the business would have thought for a second that Race wouldn't be there.
Flair was asked about the art of cutting a money drawing promo. Flair said that for him, the business was so real and he believed 90 to 95% of what he said. He said that he had passion for it and when they put the microphone in front of him, he felt it and noted that when you are wrestling one of the greatest wrestlers of all time, it wasn't hard to get the words to come out. Flair said it's an emotional process that's just right there for him and sometimes it works for him and sometimes it doesn't. Race praised Flair for his promos and said that when someone talks from the heart, it reflects onto the fans. Race said they were both gifted at cutting promos. He said his last hope at that time was to see Flair become what he eventually did. He said that no one deserved it then or now more than Ric did.
Flair said that after his match with Shawn Michaels, Reid came running to him in the locker room and told a story about Race getting up clapping for the match and looked around the room, so everyone knew to get up and clap or else. Flair thanked Race. Race said that their era will survive what is out there now.
Race was asked his reaction to losing the belt. Race said it was two-sided deal as passing the torch was the best thing he ever did in the ring. He said that he knew he was passing it to a person that thought as much about the importance of the title as Race did. He said they did Lord knows how many 60 to 90-minute matches and he knew he wasn't passing the title to someone who wouldn't take it and do the same that Race did. Race said his body was telling him it was time to drop it. He said that the way he walks today, he has no one to blame but himself now. He said that Flair being able to take the same drive in the ring made Race feel that he couldn't and wouldn't have dropped it to a better choice. Race said that when he passed the torch, he decided the only time he'll ever dress in a suit is a wedding or funeral, which is why he dresses the way he does.
Flair was asked about the feeling of winning the World title that night. He said it was a great feeling and that having it and being able to prove yourself was an awesome feeling. He said Race advised him to get to TBS and get on cable. He said the first time he was World champ, he would go to places where there were no fans because no one knew he who was. The second title win really elevated him to being a true champion as opposed to a flash in the pan deal.
Flair was asked if his first title run was something of a tryout. Race answered saying at the time, there were a lot of political arguments going on about who got the most votes to make what needed happen. He said Flair was caught up in the middle of an argument that worked great for Race and bad for Flair, but in the long run, set Flair on the path to his greatness.
Flair and Race were asked about how intense the locker rooms were back during the territories. Flair said there were times that there was legitimate heat between the wrestlers and that it was a whole different world. Flair said with no contracts you were working to be at the top of the card and there was legitimate animosity and competition to get into the top spots. He said it created a whole different atmosphere than the business has today.
A fan asked about Gene Kiniski refereeing the match and whether he got in their way. Flair said Kiniski did and Race "told him." Flair said Kiniski was called a "clumsy son of a bitch" and told that some things never change. Flair said Kiniski took it the same way everyone did when Race did something, he took it and kept quiet.
A fan asked about the art of storytelling in the ring and how it's lacking today. Flair said that the business is different now since it's all about television and about getting the viewing audience. Flair said that there are guys good enough to do anything he and Race did but that's not what their job is. He said it could be their passion but they won't get the chance because the changes in the business. He said Undertaker, Randy Orton, Batista, John Cena, Triple H, Chris Jericho and Shawn Michaels could all do it. He said the younger ones have it in their hearts to do it even if they don't have the experience. Flair said people think he puts up for Triple H but the reality is he doesn't need to get in the ring every night and goes for 30 minutes. Flair jokes that he watches him and thinks "he's seen this before" because it's Flair's old deal. Race said there are names that can perform at every level and do a heck of a lot more on the house shows than they do on the WWE TV. He said that's the way it should be but it's TV so when you watch it, you see what you get. Flair said he'd like to see any of the names he mentioned drink all night with Harley Race and then make TV at 9 AM before going to a double shot that night.
A fan asked when they had the time to talk to the other wrestlers about what they were going to do. Flair said, "Are you kidding me?" and commented that they only talked about it in the ring, certainly never before or after.
A fan asked if they tried to go out of their way to make Starrcade 83's main event "more special" than any previous bout. Flair said that they saw each other all of two minutes. Flair said usually Race said, "It's like Greyhound, leave the driving to me" although he didn't that night out of respect.
A fan asked about Dusty Rhodes hogging up the spotlight the night of Starrcade and asked if Flair ever wanted to slap him for it. Flair disagreed and said that the show was built around him and that was Dusty's call. The fan mentioned Rhodes being credited with killing Crockett's company with bad booking. Ric disagreed and said what killed Crockett was going West of the Mississippi River when they didn't have the TV strength. He said that if they hadn't, Crockett would still be in business.
A fan asked about the phantom title changes in New Zealand. Flair asked if everyone wanted to hear the truth. Race decided they were going to change the title themselves because promoter Steve Rickard was a good guy and needed the help. Flair said they were going to get in trouble and Race told him they were doing it, so Flair said, "Yes sir!" Flair said that if Paul Boesch hadn't been there, no one would have known. He said that if Harley wanted to do something, he had the respect to pull it off. Flair joked he was actually a 17-time World champion and kept going up on numbers. Race said that he knew he was going to get chewed out over the switches and "it happened from every angle you could imagine." Flair quipped they happened over the phone, not face to face.
Flair was asked about their thoughts on World Class, Fritz Von Erich and the Von Erich family. Race said he started wrestling in St. Louis and Fritz was a good-sized name there. He said that when Fritz took over the Dallas territory, everyone in the NWA stood up to help him. He said getting one Von Erich into the business was a good idea but three or four didn't work out so well. Race said that David was the best of them. He said that the time, if you could get in and out of St. Louis, you would be in contention because all the TV was sent to all the NWA promoters. He said he and Ric were lucky to be in the right point and time and spot in St. Louis. He said that he didn't think anyone deserved the NWA title more than himself or Ric. Race said that in that era, you needed to pull out an hour with anyone you were put in the ring with and none of the Von Erichs could have done it. Race said it was never planned for David to win the World title from him.
A fan asked if they ever got tired of carrying the World title around. Flair said never. It was noted that Flair had 12 robes stolen so at times, he had to stop checking them on airplanes. Flair said that everyone took care of the belt but didn't have the same respect for the robes. Flair said he took a lot of his mannerisms with the robe and the belt from Race. He said the respect in the business changed as it went from returning to the locker room to find the robe laid out and smoothed for him in 1981 to it being tossed in a ball in a corner in 1995.
A fan asked about working and carrying the Von Erichs in the ring. Flair said the Von Erichs put together a phenomenal promotion and had amazing TV behind them but the "boys never had a chance." Flair said that Fritz was in denial and no one wanted to deal with the problems, from David on down. Flair said that everyone knew what was going on but the family was in denial with themselves and the boys.
Flair was asked about the night Baby Doll joined forces with the Horsemen. Flair said that she always had eyes for him. Baby Doll was in the back, so Flair called her onto the stage. He said that she was such a huge part of the promotion and her coming over to them was a huge coup. He said she had more fun with them. She said that growing up in the business, being put with them was amazing. She said she was the biggest mark in the business and was honored to even be asked to come up. She said that in her first match, when she was told her first finish, that was when she learned how it was done. She said that unless you were on the jets and in the limos, you don't really know what it was like and thanked everyone.
Race said that there's no one who hasn't been physically involved in wrestling that understands what it's really like to do the business and do it safely. He said there are people who talk about what they would do but that's part of why the business has fallen apart. He said if they taught what they know and Triple H knows, the business would be in a better spot than it is right now.
Flair said that today is better for the wrestlers than it was during their era and they are both happy for that since there are contracts and guys being paid when there are health issues. He said they don't wish they could make the money John Cena makes because they are happy to see the business at the level it is at now. Flair said sometimes he doesn't like socializing with guys who don't like the business today because everyone made their own beds and laid in it, himself included. He said the business is a guy's soap opera now.
Race was asked if there were other names in the early 1980s who could have been in Flair's position to replace him. Race said there were a lot of qualified people, but only one Ric Flair and that was the right call. He said time passed him by but it still hasn't passed Flair by and Flair could still make Joe Blow look like Mr. Wrestling.
Flair was asked about wrestling Vader at Starrcade '93 and Race's memories of managing Vader. Flair said it was something that worked out as Vader was supposed to wrestle Sid Vicious. Flair said Leon White was a great guy but didn't think he wanted to lose. Flair said Vader tested him in the ring. Vader had respect for Race and when he was told to do the right thing, he said "Yes sir" like everyone else.
A ten-year-old fan asked for advice for someone who wants to be in the wrestling field one day. Flair said he advised his parents to get him into an amateur wrestling program because it builds self-esteem, which you need in the business. He said to finish school and get through college. He said if you still want to do it in ten years, go to Harley's school and if that doesn't exist, go to Tampa, FL (WWE developmental). Race said amateur wrestling shows everyone that you have the drive and that you are capable to do whatever you want to do. Race said that if by chance, he's still running a school in ten years, go to www.harleyrace.com.
Flair and Race were asked about Dick Slater and Bob Orton's roles leading into Starrcade 83. Race said that he had cut a promo putting a reward out on Flair's head but that was as far as his knowledge in the angle went. He said Flair was involved in it and worked it to a tee to pull it off all over the Carolinas and got everyone in the United States talking about it. Race said he was lucky to be part of the lucky end of the product and had the weather been better, they would still have records that stood. Race said he was lucky to get a great payday in part thanks to that angle.
Flair said Slater and Orton were both World champion caliber wrestlers. Flair said that he wrestled them with various partners for three months leading into Starrcade and it was a great time. Flair said they made the people believe and they conducted themselves really seriously. He said the business is still the same, but the word entertainment changed it so much. He said that everyone who knows and loves the business knows it’s a sport. He said it changed for the better long term.
A fan talked about how nothing in the business makes him want to watch anymore. He said that the last thing he wanted to watch was Flair's last run. He said there are no older fans at the shows now and he'd rather watch these two cut promos than anything in the business now. Flair said he and Race like hearing that but he doesn't know that's the truth. He said he'll never be the guy who says things aren't better now because he has friends that work there and they have the stresses of a different environment. He said the structure and camaraderie of the business has changed so much. He said life has changed and we all have to make that adjustment. He said they respect that the fans care so much about their accomplishments.
Ric was asked when he really realized he could carry the World title and a promotion. Flair said he never really thought of it like that and he's had self-confidence issues periodically. He said he just wanted to hear from a few people that he was doing the right thing and if Race and Blackjack Mulligan felt he was doing well, he was happy. He said that if he tells someone something, they don't need to ask anyone else because he's that good. He said that he knew his peers were that good.
Flair was asked about Kerry Von Erich's initials being on the NWA title. He said it wasn't. He was asked why he still has the World title belt and Flair said they never asked him for it to be returned and he was sure they would ask for it back, but they never did. He said they replaced it with the big gold belt and he kept the old one and eventually mounted it. He said the gold one is in Hogan's possession, which fans booed.
They were asked about the stresses of the travel and pressures. Flair said he had five unrecorded nervous breakdowns. You were in the ring for an hour every night in different places, sometimes with the same person, sometimes with different. He said that even if you wanted to sleep, there was no time. You got out of an Arena at 11 PM and had to be on a plane at 6 AM. It was his life and he never thought twice about it and regrets nothing.
Flair was asked about Race working as a substitute for Vader in WCW against Flair. Flair said it never happened. Race was asked about his final match and he said he doesn't truthfully know. He said it was in the mid-90s but he'd have to look it up to tell fans. He said that to sum his career, it would be a coin flip over who had the better career. Race said they were both on an untouchable career. Race said he thought he set a mark, but then can Ric. He said there was very, very little about his career he would change.
Flair was asked about the Internet and things he'd like to dispel. He had taken some jabs at it earlier. Flair said he was being facetious since he'd remember working Race in the 90s.
A fan who was at Wrestlemania 24 asked Flair about the experience. He said Shawn Michaels was next to none in the ring. He said that what fans need to understand about Michaels and Triple H is the level of respect they have for names like Flair and Race. Michaels wanted to be Ric when he grew up and Ric described him as a unique, special guy with unique level of performance.
Flair was asked about Four Horsemen candidates he wanted that didn't come to pass. Flair said it wasn't his call, but he wanted people who could talk and wrestle and they, including J.J., could all do it. Flair was asked about a fantasy Horsemen lineup and he said himself, Harley Race, Dick Murdoch and Jack Brisco. Flair said you'd never imagine the hell Race and Murdoch raised. Race said he's surprised they are even free.
A fan asked if they ever watch their own matches. Flair said that he does it with his son Reid and he likes watching the 80s.
They were asked about Dusty Rhodes. Flair said he was their best good guy opponent and that at no point could Dusty not hang with them or keep up. They praised him a lot. They were asked about Ricky Steamboat. Race praised him as a performer and person. Flair said he wanted to tell a story about Steamboat at the Hall of Fame. Flair told a story about busting open Ricky on the floor of WRAL in Raleigh, NC and Race was visiting. Race wasn't happy with the final result so he told David Crockett to get some sandpaper and used it on Ricky's face to make it look rougher and harder of a beating. He said that Steamboat cried the entire time but he did what he needed for the business, because back then it was more real.
They were asked about their favorite wrestlers. Race said it was Flair and that there was no one out there today who could equal what Flair accomplished. He said Flair leaped into it in the early 70s and is still in it today and healthy. Flair said it was a gift that God gave him.
They were asked if they ever felt disrespected by storylines about legend killers, etc. Race said they were just that, storylines. Race said they have told their stories and have done it. Flair said, "Who's going to kill Ric Flair and Harley Race? Nobody." Flair said he loves when they call him to come to TV and can't wait to see what they have in store for him. He joked he almost got killed wrestling Randy Orton for 15 minutes (and he said "wrestling"). He said he doesn't take anything for granted.
They were asked to address the fans who assembled from around the world for the convention. Race said that if it wasn't for the fans, there never would have been a Flair or a Race. He said if they went into an empty Arena, there wouldn't be pay for long for them. He said the fans gave them both everything they have. Race said that they may have been entertaining but it was thanks to the fans and asked them to thank themselves. Flair said they both have so much respect for the fans and the parents of the fans who came before them. He said that the fans continue to give them respect even when they are past their prime. He said normal people don't understand because what they did wasn't normal and thanked everyone.
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