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Ahead of this Sunday's TNA Lockdown, PWInsiderElite.com sat down with Mustafa Ali. Here is a complete transcript.
Mike Johnson: It is Tuesday, August 11th, 2026 as we record this, which means we are just a few weeks away from TNA Lockdown coming to the Windy City of Chicago on August 23rd live on pay-per-view, TNA+, all those other lovely places where you can find pay-per-view programming. Very happy to be sitting down with someone who will be one of the many competitors stepping into the steel cage that evening. Mustafa Ali will be returning to Chicago, a city that he knows very well, to challenge the new TNA International Champion, Jason Hotch, who has now left Order 4. Obviously, Mustafa Ali continues to lead that esteemed group. It's good to sit down and talk to you again. Been an interesting couple of weeks for yourself, Order 4, and everybody who's involved in the periphery. Obviously, you're no stranger to Chicago. It's an important city in your mind and in your heart. Thoughts on the big show and everything that we're looking forward to in the next couple of weeks?
Mustafa Ali: Mr. Johnson, thank you for having me. It's been a minute. Yeah, like you said, just a whirlwind of the last few weeks from the main event match that took place on TNA Impact. It's very humbling and gratifying to hear that people are still talking about this match between Jason Hotch and myself. What an electric night, man. The crowd was unreal, and I think it's going to be one of those moments that really springboards Jason Hotch's career going forward. Not only to get to do it in front of a worldwide audience live on AMC, but more importantly, being able to do that in front of his wife and daughter. Very cool moment for him, and there's a part of me personally that's very happy for him. But professionally, not so happy, right? Here's the thing: TNA is at a crossroads, right? It's its rebirth, it's this momentum that we have. We're going full steam forward. We need leaders to lead. We need the best in front. I don't think Jason Hotch is there yet. Jason Hotch belongs by my side, not in front of me. Jason Hotch still needs to learn. I don't think Jason Hotch is ready to fly, and I unfortunately have to be the one that's responsible for him crashing and burning Sunday, August 23rd in Chicago. He's doing the impossible. He's getting into a cage. He's facing a prime Mustafa Ali. I'm the best that I've ever been in my 23, 24-year career, and of all things and of all places, this guy decides to fight me in Chicago. There's some things that you just don't do, and you definitely don't do it in Chicago, and that's fight Mustafa Ali. So, I hope his wife and his child don't come to the show. I anticipate it to be a fight, but I genuinely hope we're able to bring balance back to Order 4. I hope Jason is understanding of where his position is, and that's meant to be beside me and not in front of me. So, I will regain the International Championship. I will regain order for Order 4, and we will go on to what the plan has always been, and that's to be the most dominant faction in TNA Wrestling.
Mike Johnson: You know, one of the things that fascinated me about the match, which I believe is one of the best matches, if not the best match, to main event any Impact on AMC thus far in that run. But one of the things that I really enjoyed about it was—and you're welcome, it's an earned compliment, it's not just being said to be said—one of the things I enjoyed about that was, and I enjoy about Order 4 in general, is there are so many personalities who are involved who, prior to Order 4 being formed, didn't get true opportunities. They were kind of there. I think John Skyler, who I think is incredibly underrated, is right at the top of the list, but even like Campaign Singh and Tasha Steelz being involved. There's a sort of orbit around you for Order 4, and everybody in that orbit has been brought up and ascended to mean more than they did before Order 4 existed. I think that's a compliment to your hard work, and I'm curious, having been someone who at different points in your career was one of these talents who were there but not given true opportunities from time to time, how important was it for you to make sure that those who were working with you did get legitimate opportunities?
Mustafa Ali: Yeah, I mean, I think it's the biggest frustration I had in my career when I was younger and I felt that I could do anything, and I physically felt amazing, and I could—just give me an opportunity. Give me an—but I also knew, early in my career, I knew there needed to be a reason. It's cool that I can do a 450 Splash, right? It's cool that I can do the imploding 450. It's cool that I can do all these high-flying moves, but the "why" is the most important thing. You're going to care about the move, the stunt, the risk, the match, me as a person way more if you know the why. And I feel like in previous organizations, I never had a why. I would pitch the why all the time. "This is why," and it just never came to fruition. So why would the audience care? And it's not like an unfounded principle. It was just the why was always given to somebody else, you know? So, yeah, Order 4, that was the exact reason for it. Yeah, the idea was make Mustafa Ali prominent by having him propped up, but the other idea behind it was give all of these characters that are very talented, don't have a why—I'm going to give them an identity, I'm going to give them a why. And I literally said this when Order 4 was first formed. I told every member, I go, "Hey, if you can trust me and you give me a year, a year and a half, I promise you, you're going to be in the position where people can understand the depth of your character, and they're going to care why." And very confidently I can say we're there. Without giving out way too much, I'm so excited for the next few weeks and the next few months. The way this story is going to unravel and be relatable to so many people at home, it's this real-life family dynamic, this family imploding. There's going to be—again, I just don't want to give it away so much, but I can't wait. I can't wait for Lockdown. I can't wait for the weeks that follow and the months that follow, because all that's going to happen is you're going to get to learn more about each character. And that's probably the biggest compliment that I can have in my TNA run right now, is that Ali gave each member of Order 4 an identity and a purpose. Now, what they decide to do with it when this story wraps up—and even if it does wrap up, if it gets extended, I don't know—but it's going to be on them. But I know I've done my due diligence by giving them a why. And I've had so many people—I've had people outside of TNA, like different organizations, text me after that match and say, "Hey, that back half, the way you got everyone involved, it was just non-stop action, but everything had a why and a reason. It was an emotional rollercoaster." They go, "That was amazing." As everyone's complimenting about how good the match was, I have to also give credit to the members of Order 4. We were able to take people on these emotional rollercoasters, and you're rooting for one guy, but you're booing for this guy, but you hope these two don't fight, but then these two start fighting. It's like this whole very intricate family dichotomy, I feel like, and I'm literally salivating at the opportunity to tell the story, so I can't wait. So please stay tuned for the next few weeks. Let's just say TNA Lockdown is going to be a pivotal point in the story, so be sure to tune in.
Mike Johnson: So this will be the first Lockdown pay-per-view that TNA has done, I believe, since you've come into the company. Thoughts on that?
Mustafa Ali: It's the first time they've done it in 10 years! They haven't done it in 10 years!
Mike Johnson: Such a long time. Thoughts on that being brought back and getting the chance to step back into a steel cage, because I don't think you've been in a steel cage since you were doing WWE or maybe before that, maybe in Dreamwave in Illinois.
Mustafa Ali: I had one steel cage match, I think on the independents, and then the one steel cage match I had, I thought was a rib. It was my first WWE live event tour, and it happened to be in Chicago. So I just got called up to the main roster, and I get to Allstate Arena. Again, it's a live event, non-televised. And I get to the locker room, and I'm the new guy, you know? I'm the new guy on the main roster, so maybe I'll be match one or something, you know? And it says in the main event, it's The Miz vs. Daniel Bryan vs. Mustafa Ali for the WWE Championship inside of a steel cage match. And I go, "I'm not falling for this." Like, clearly this is like a nice little rib. And nope, sure enough, I'm in the main event in a cage match! So, yeah, man, that experience in itself was just wild, being in the ring with two competitors like Bryan and Miz. So other than those two matches, I haven't had much more cage experience in my 24 years of wrestling. But I'm very much looking forward to it. I was so interested to see what the feedback would be from the fans, because one of the things I feel like TNA is focusing back on is its own unique identity. Let's do stuff that's unique to TNA, you know? Talking about like Destination X and Ultimate X and Lockdown, the stuff that is synonymous with TNA, let's go back to that. So when it was announced, I was like, "Man, are people going to remember? Are they going to care?" And the reception has just been unreal. So I know for sure we're trying to break the record as far as our attendance. I know there's a big push for that. It's Chicago, I think there's going to be a frenzy, a great big fight feel. And I've never—you know, I've watched Lockdown obviously, but I've never attended a Lockdown, so I'm just so interested to see how each performer is going to try to make their match unique, because it's all inside a cage, right? So that's going to be an interesting challenge for myself and the other performers that night. But yeah, man, it's just so cool to be part of history, the first Lockdown in 10 years, and I'm nervous as hell, but I'm anxious to show out in Chicago.
Mike Johnson: One of the things I'm always fascinated by is the amount of creativity amongst talent, because as much as you're competing with your opponent, you're also competing with the other matches, and you want to have the match that's the most memorable as a talent. When you've got a card full of steel cage matches, how much does that up the ante of not only the creative process, but also trying to figure out unique and different ways to use the cage and use the environment in ways that others may not that same night? How much of a challenge is it mentally to prep and prepare to do something unique on a night where pretty much everything is going to be unique for everybody else?
Mustafa Ali: So without giving away too much, the biggest piece of advice that I've found that's really helped me in my matches, and I think what helps the structure and the uniqueness of it, is to truly use what you have. And I don't mean the cage. I mean, what is the true story between you and your opponent? I have a very unique story with Hotch. I would argue that it's the most unique story on the show right now as far as an emotional investment. And with that, that is my tool. I need to figure out—and I know I'm being very vague, and hopefully my words are prophetic after, you know, maybe on August 24th people can clip this and see exactly what I'm talking about. Yes, it's a cage match, but that's not the match. The match is—it's almost like father versus son. It's mentor versus mentee. That's the match. Yeah, it's taking place inside a cage, but it could also take place in a parking lot. It could take place inside a grocery store. Not that it doesn't matter, but what I really need to focus on and what I really need to figure out is the emotional investment of this story. And let's just say I have a few tricks up my sleeve to make sure my match is unique. So that is what's going to set my match apart from all the others. Yeah, there's System vs. The System, Moose vs. Frankie Kazarian, it's going to be awesome, and they have a long history. My match is going to be different inherently because Hotch and I are different—the relationship, the angle, the story, this idea of, you know—because it's real life and it's on screen. I feel like I made Hotch. I feel like I protected Hotch, you know? Hotch's contract was up. I went to bat for him. "No, we need to keep him. I want him in my—he's my pet project." So I'm invested in this guy, and for this guy to turn around, and I feel like stab me in the heart and take something—I've given him everything, and he took everything from me. So there's an emotional investment already that I would argue is not prevalent in any other story right now. So as long as I lean on that, we're going to be just fine. And that's what I challenge everybody else to do, is to find their emotional connection. Yes, it's taking place in a cage, yes, there's going to be some similarities and whatnot, but there's similarities across all the cards even if you're just—it's still taking place in a wrestling ring. You've got to find that emotional connection in your match, and that's your why, and that's what's going to connect with the audience and make your match unique.
Mike Johnson: It's going to be held on the 23rd at the Credit Union 1 Arena, which I'm very jealous you're going to get to perform in. When that was the UIC Pavilion in another generation, that's where Lawler wrestled Kerry Von Erich at AWA SuperClash, Flair and Steamboat Chi-Town Rumble, lots of Jim Crockett shows took place there. I'm jealous you're even going to get to get inside that building and perform there. But, you know, you're an Illinois guy, a Chicago guy.
Mustafa Ali: Very cool for me. Very cool.
Mike Johnson: Yeah, so the question: How excited are you to be able to—
Mustafa Ali: Yeah, I was sorry—sorry not to cut you off, just very cool for me considering all the history in the UIC Pavilion. People think like I'm this cruiserweight, but man, I love Memphis wrestling. I love Crockett Promotions. I love the old-school stuff. There's nothing like a Jerry Lawler punch, you know? I'm a big fan of Florida Championship Wrestling, World Class, all that stuff. It's like, man, what's old is new. So to be able to perform in UIC Pavilion where so many legends of the industry—but more importantly, it's just like, man, a lot of people have not had the opportunity in my era to perform there, and I get to do it. So it's going to be awesome.
Mike Johnson: Another opportunity you're going to get is tomorrow, you're going to get to throw out the ceremonial first pitch at the Chicago White Sox game! How cool is that going to be?
Mustafa Ali: Is it weird that I'm more nervous about throwing the first pitch than competing inside a cage? Is that more weird? [Laughs]
Mike Johnson: I don't know if it's weird, but I understand that. I'd have great anxiety if I had to pull that off.
Mustafa Ali: Yeah, and I'm like thinking about it, like how hard can it be? And my group chat's going crazy. My friends are like, "Man, if you throw a bad one, we're going to clown you so bad. You're never going to hear the end of it." I'm like, "Oh my god, this is a big deal." I need to go practice a few throws tonight when I get done with all this media. That might be the agenda.
Mike Johnson: Might have to hit the batting cage, too, just to get yourself ready, throw some balls. Obviously, TNA Lockdown is going to be August 23rd. I know we're running out of time here. If anybody wants information, they can go to TNAWrestling.com/lockdown. But sir, first of all, I want you to come back at some point, because I would love to talk Memphis wrestling with you, specifically Dundee and Lawler and all that stuff. I love talking all that stuff, so if you've got a passion for that, I'd love to sit down and talk to you about it at some point.
Mustafa Ali: We'll go "Mustafa's Memphis Mondays" or something like that! [Laughs]
Mike Johnson: We'll bring the Mid-South Coliseum back to life with memories, it'd be great. Obviously, the last question is, there's still some tickets left. If anybody's in the greater Chicago area, why should they make sure they come and check out Lockdown live as opposed to watching it on TNA+ or watching it on pay-per-view?
Mustafa Ali: TNA has a chip on its shoulder. It's something to prove, and this underdog mentality and this never-say-die and this "I'm going to steal the show and I don't give a damn who's before me or after me" that is prevalent in TNA is the best. Me and Laredo Kid have this thing where we're kind of looking across the room at each other, and I'm kind of like, "What you got going on tonight?" He's like, "Don't worry about it." He's like, "What do you got going on tonight?" "Don't worry..." You know, like we're just—because we know it's just a competition. And you have amazing guys, like just look at the roster, man. Trey Miguel, Rich Swann, Zachary Wentz, Joe Hendry and Nic Nemeth, that game is going to be great. Frankie Kazarian, Moose, it's going to be great. The Hardys vs. ABC, it's going to be awesome. The System tag match is going to be—it's just, I'm excited about the possibilities. There's this genuine energy live at a TNA event. I don't know how to describe it, and maybe again, maybe it's just because I'm back there and I feel it, but especially like this past show in Philly that we had, man, the energy was off the roof. And I can't wait for you guys to see the upcoming main events, you'll see exactly what I'm talking about, the tapings that we did in Philly. Chicago is a wrestling town, and I feel like they're just going to love a good fight. They're going to love a good, old, dragged-out fight, and it's one of the greatest wrestling towns. They always say like, if you can make it in New York, if you can make it in Philly, and if you can make it in Chicago when it comes to getting over with the fans, that's when you know you're good. So, New York and Philly, check. Chicago, I own this place, so I'm not worried about it. It's going to be amazing, man. So please, yeah, come out and check it out. It's a party, man. If anything else, other than me giving you this amazing match which is guaranteed, if you've never experienced The Hardys' entrance live, you're missing out on a rock concert. Like, it is insane. Even this past taping in Philadelphia, I'm not exaggerating, I felt the floor shaking. And we all just kind of look at each other, like, they're timeless. They're living rockstars. So if anything else, come to TNA Lockdown just to experience The Hardys' entrance. It's so cool, it's classic, it's timeless. But then on top of it, you're going to have a stacked card with some amazing talent that have a point to prove in the Windy City.
Mike Johnson: Included on that card is Mustafa Ali challenging Jason Hotch for the TNA International Championship. You can see the Commander-in-Chief of TNA every week on TNA Impact and, of course, on TNA+ 24/7 with the past, present, and future. We'll have full coverage of Lockdown, and we're going to hold Mustafa Ali to this, we're going to talk Memphis down the line. We thank everybody for their support of PWInsiderElite.com. Sir, thank you so much for this great interview. I appreciate the conversation, and we'll talk to everybody soon.
Mustafa Ali: Thanks for the time, Mike.
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