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ORIGINALLY PUBLISHED 6/22/11
PWInsider Presents Turnbuckle Madness
Guest: Scott Bowden
Commentary: George Wren
Slogan: Nothing Is Held Back
George: During this segment of Turnbuckle Madness we have none other then former USWA manager Scott Bowden Scott thanks for joining us this week here at PWInsider for Turnbuckle Madness.
Scott: Thanks for having me.
George: When were you born?
Scott: April 30, 1971.
George: Where were you born?
Scott: In the backseat of a '69 El Dorado. Oh, wait--you said, "born"--not "conceived." I was born in Memphis. In a hospital, as far as I know. But not in the same Memphis adoption-scam involving Ric Flair.
George: Where are you currently residing at the present time?
Scott: In Beverly Hills, near Nick Bockwinkel's sprawling estate. When he's up to it, Bobby Heenan and I play badminton on Sundays--and I usually let him win at this point, especially after I've had a Bloody Mary. Seriously, though, I live with my wife, Hayley, about 10 minutes outside Beverly Hills, near West Hollywood. Really, at the heart of the city. Or as I like to refer to it: the belly of the beast that is Los Angeles.
George: How did you get your start in professional wrestling?
Scott: I was a fan of the business since 1977 during the first series of matches between Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee. They kept coming back every Monday night for nearly two months with the same main event match-up but with a different stipulation, culminating with Dundee's wife getting her head shaved. When Lawler "retired" and returned as a babyface months later, he became the "home team" to my friends and me since we had no professional sports team in Memphis. I aspired to become involved in the business, either as a performer or a booker--before I even really understood what a "booker" was. I used to write out elaborate story lines involving my friends as wrestlers--a federation that existed only in my mind. Eventually, I discovered an actual backyard wrestling "league"--Kevin and Brian Lawler's NWA...Neighborhood Wrestling Alliance. I was impressed--these guys had elaborate homemade outfits, with the exception of white knee-high socks for "boots" and tried to work bouts in a fairly professional-looking wrestling ring constructed in some guy's backyard. From there, I got to eventually hang around backstage, helping to set up the ring at the WMC-TV studio. Year later, as part of a journalism class I was taking at the University of Memphis, I wrote an article about Brian Christopher Lawler, who was a part-time student at the U of M while hitting his stride as a wrestler. Because I'd been around backstage and helping out for no pay, I was granted interview access to Jerry Lawler, Dave Brown and Jeff Jarrett--the article turned out so well that my professor encouraged me to submit it to her husband, who was a sports editor at the Memphis Commercial Appeal newspaper. Thing is, I'd promised all my sources that it was strictly for class and that it wouldn't be published. Since that time, however, I have used quotes from those candid interviews for my Kentucky Fried Rasslin' site.
George: George: How did it come about you coming to Memphis to work for Jerry Jarrett/Jerry Lawler?
Scott: I was finishing up my article when referee Jerry Calhoun was abruptly fired. Needing a quick replacement, Jerry Lawler asked his son Kevin, "What about the skinny kid who's been hanging around--the writer?" Jerry assured me it would be good research for my article...and he'd pay me $50. He gave me a crash course in Refereeing 101 backstage at the Mid-South Coliseum about an hour before bell time. Going in, I felt pretty confident I could handle it; that is, until the King concluded by warning me that the boys would occasionally call spots through me to communicate with each other. He also made me promise that if something looked like shit in the ring from my vantage point to tell the boys "to lay it in there." I walked out of his dressing room a nervous wreck. I managed not to screw up any spots or finishes, so I was invited back. As a native Memphian and a student on campus, I had a lot of explaining to do after I started appearing on TV. Funny thing was, everyone from my English Lit professor to the janitor at the journalism building would never admit to actually "watching" wrestling. It was always "I was flipping the channels and saw you"...or "My son likes it, but I don't really watch."
George: When Lawler turned you "heel" from being a referee did you have any idea on how high you as going to be pushed with the company?
Scott: It was Eddie Gilbert's idea to turn me heel--basically as favor to me to surprise my girlfriend who was in the audience that night, which I mentioned to Gilbert about an hour before their main event. Lawler called me into the back to give me the finish and said, "We're going to turn you heel." I looked over at Eddie, who had a devilish grin on his face. Needless to say, after I kicked Lawler in the back of the head and shoved him on his ass when he questioned me afterward, my girlfriend was pretty damn shocked. People were waiting for us in the parking lot, and I told her to run and keep her head down as we got the hell out of there. You hear a lot from the veterans about taking control of your character and getting yourself over. On a very subtle level during my ref days, I was doing just that--always a starched Polo shirt, with my Pi Kappa Alpha fraternity pledge pin pressed right next to the horse, starched black hipster Dickies pants, and wearing shiny black Doc Martens low-cut shoes. The fans hated me months before I actually kicked Lawler in the head despite the fact that I had, until that point, called the matches right down the middle….at least according to plan. I was hoping for that opportunity to make the switch to the "dark side."
George: When you were asked to cut your first promo on live television what was going through your mind before you went through the curtain.. Were the butterflies there?
Scott: Certainly. Just seeing my name on the TV outline for my designated promo freaked me out that morning. It didn't help when Kevin Lawler walked up to me and said, "Just think--if you go on to be a big star, people will always point back to this as your first interview." Great--thanks a lot. However, I had a certain idea of what I should I say after planting my size 12 Doc Marten on Lawler's head. Not only had I been practicing heel interviews in front of a mirror dating back to the '70s, but also I had been carefully scripting in my mind what I wanted to say that day based on the events of last Monday night. But I was dismayed to arrive at TV Saturday to learn that I was to apologize to Lance and Lawler for my behavior, with Russell cutting me off saying, "Sorry, son, it's too late. Promoter Eddie Marlin has fired you." At that point, Eddie is supposed to come out as I'm shocked speechless, promising me a job as a manager. But even more disconcerting: They informed backstage that in two weeks, Eddie would beat me up after I screwed up some kind of interference and then they'd bring me back in a month as a babyface referee. Figuring it was live TV and my only chance to deliver the heel promo of my dreams, I came out as a heel from the start, claiming that I'd "stomped Lawler like the cockroach that he is." Lance carried me the rest of the way, including a classic exchange where he warned me of hanging out with the likes of Gilbert when I roll my eyes and say disdainfully, "Oh, OK, DAD! OK, DAD!" Afterward, Lance pulled me aside and told me that he nearly cracked up on that line. I also accused Lance of not leaving in 1989 to go to Atlanta to WCW but to run the Jerry Lawler Fan Club full time. Basically, I figured it was live TV, so what would they do, except fire me? Lawler called me over when I waked through the curtain and said, "Good. Very good. But next time, try to say what we told you to say." Hours later, Kevin Lawler told that while Jerry and Eddie were laughing backstage, that Jerry was also a little pissed, saying, "What the HELL is he doing?!"
George: How were you able to go out and cut a promo rather it be on Lance Russell or one of the "babyfaces" and keep such a straight face without losing it on television?
Scott: The turning point came when the late Troy Graham, the Dream Machine, pulled me aside once and dressed me down for not having a bandage on my forehead after apparently getting my head busted open with a Coke bottle. Incidentally, in Memphis, they actually used real bottles for angles like that. They'd put actual bottles in the oven for a few hours so they'd shatter immediately on impact. My bottle shot in particular looked like the Kennedy assassination, with my head rocking back and forth, with shards of glass flying through the air as I collapsed unconscious in a heap. My girlfriend, who was in the audience that night, thought they'd killed me. Anyway, in my interview the following Saturday, I made a joke about missing modeling sessions, which was the absolute wrong to say, and I grinned when Lance rolled his eyes. I had also failed to come out with any type of bandage on--and they had shown the clip moments earlier. The Dream (Graham) pulled me aside when I got backstage and said, "Ten years ago, I'd be beating the shit out of you right now. You take a bottle shot like that on Monday and then come out on TV with no bandage and joke about it? You're a smart kid...you could be a good promo. But if you won't sell the punishment, we'll make you sell it one way or the other? Got it, kid?" I most certainly got it. I was trying to be too cute, and the Dream called me out. Troy Graham was a hell of a guy--very underrated promo guy. In fact, I was 9 years old when Troy, under the hood as the Dream, sold out the Coliseum, in Lawler's first match back after the broken leg of nearly 11 months.
George: What did you enjoy the most working in Memphis?
Scott:: While I never experienced the heat of working in front of a packed Mid-South Coliseum, I loved going to small venues like Union City High School and the Nashville Sports Arena. The fans there were diehard throwback to the kayfabe era. People would throw bricks at my car, teach their 4-year-olds to flip me the bird--one guy in Nashville even pulled a switchblade on me. It was nights like that in small towns that I truly felt a part of the bygone era I'd grown up watching, with the fans living and dying with their heroes and hating the heels--which is how it should work. I recall a former TNA employee telling me that he Vince Russo approached this longtime veteran of the biz and said, "I don't understand this whole heel vs. babyface thing. Explain it to me." The wrestler's response: "There's a book you should read." His interest piqued, Russo asked, "Which book?!" As the wise veteran turned to live the room, he said, "The Bible." Wow--that speaks volumes. Anyway, I suppose the highlight was experiencing the last of the kayfabe territory days. No wonder Andy Kaufman loved working in Memphis. What other kind of theatre has the crowd whipped into such a frenzy that they want to kill you after your performance? I also enjoyed the live element of the Saturday morning TV show. While there was a format, it was loose, and often Lawler would come up with things on the fly as the show progressed. I feel this transcended to the viewing audience , who never really knew what to expect next. Truth is, we didn't either.
George: You managed several in Memphis... Who was some of the ones you managed while working in Memphis?
Scott: Started with Eddie Gilbert, then briefly Bam Bam Bigelow, then Dream Machine. My longest run was probably with Tommy Rich and Doug Gilbert, and it was a heck of a lot of fun. Doug was the first one who really took the muzzle off me and let speak me first during our promos before switching it over to them a la the classic managers of years gone by, who really served as a mouthpiece. And then I started doing the Andy Kaufman bit, wrestling Ms. Texas (former WWE Ladies Champion Jacquelyn). Jackie and I had a great chemistry together.
George: Whom did you enjoy the most working with?
Scott: The highlight had to be managing Lawler, who had finally turned heel again his hometown after being such a vile villain on WWE TV. To me, I was living my dream having watched Lawler his managers Mickey Poole and Jimmy Hart over the years. We cut some great promos together and had a hell of a lot of fun heeling around the territory together. Plus, it was cool to be a part of that next generation of Memphis stars like Brian Lawler, Jamie Dundee, Jeff Jarrett, Kevin Lawler--all young guys who I got know fairly well. I also recall my first main event at the Coliseum: Dream Machine, Doug Gilbert and me vs. Jerry Lawler and Brian Christopher.
George: What was some of the things you enjoyed about Memphis Wrestling as a kid and even growing up?
Scott: I probably didn't realize it at the time, but I loved the personal issues--how real-life professional jealousy between Jerry Lawler and Bill Dundee was exploited to deliver an outstanding program that the people believed in. And I loved the crazy gimmicks---everyone from Darth Vader to Spider-Man to Kojak--wrestled in Memphis when I was a kid. But then the promotion would switch gears and build up a Lawler program where he was working to get his way back into contention for a World title shot. Jarrett used the World champion sparingly, feeling as if they should be special events, and that philosophy clicked with fans. A Lawler match challenging for the World strap had the aura of a Super Bowl in Memphis. In hindsight, whenever Jerry Jarrett had the book, there were less gimmicks, with more of an emphasis on title feuds. When Lawler had the book, more gimmicks and stipulation matches. Once Lawler was an established star, he and Jarrett would swap booking duties every six months or so to keep the territory fresh. It was a good mix for a territory that appreciated both the athleticism of wrestling and the showmanship of 'rasslin'.
George: Now your gimmick in Memphis played out as the nephew of Florida State Seminoles (FSU) Bobby Bowden as a "work" as you motioned in several of your promos. Do you think that go over with the crowd with Memphis or do you think the fans really didn't catch on what you was saying or trying to do?
Scott: The whole gimmick started because I wanted my own trademark weapon of choice to interfere with. Jimmy Hart had his cane--and later a megaphone in WWE--while Jim Cornette had his tennis racket. Then Paul E. debuted in Memphis using his oversized cell phone to knock out babyfaces. College football is big in the South, so I claimed that my "uncle" Bobby Bowden had sent me a Florida State football helmet for protection. Actually, I bought a plain white helmet from a sporting goods store and Lawler painted it to resemble FSU's. So I'd wear it so the babyfaces couldn't punch me, and then I'd nail them with it with the referee was distracted or "knocked unconscious." I wrote a promo word for word explaining how my Uncle Bobby had invited me to Tallahassee and Lawler loved it.
George: How long did you work for Memphis?
Scott: Off and on, from '91 to '96.
George: Was you around when Larry Burton arrived in Memphis?
Scott: {LOL} I met Larry and figured immediately he was a conman looking to swindle a bunch of easy marks down South. I talked to him about coming back to manage and he called me over to his apartment to "audition." I told him my past work spoke for itself and there would no audition.
George: What are your thoughts on Larry Burton arriving in Memphis, and the USWA coming to an end?
Scott: I started tuning out around this time--I was moving onto to other things. Namely, a writing career in Los Angeles, where I still reside today.
George: Do you think the USWA would still be around today if it wasn't for Burton or do you feel like the USWA had to much against it to stay alive?
Scott: Nothing last forever. Though Burton probably had the final nail in the coffin. That was also around the time Jerry Jarrett got out for good, which helped kill it as well as no one was around to keep Lawler in check. From what I understand, Burton's priority was to piss off as many people as possible why'll trying to reinvent a WWF-style of Memphis wrestling that the promotion didn't have the resources to pull off. Near the end, things had gotten so bad that some were convinced that Burton was purposely trying to put the promotion in such awful financial straits that Lawler would unload the promotion on a money mark, making a nice profit for them both. But I wasn't around then, so I can't say for sure exactly what went down.
George: What was your thoughts from the USWA moving from The Mid-South Coliseum to a smaller venue in The Big One Expo Center?
Scott: It was sad in a way. To move from the iconic Coliseum to what was essentially a flea-market building on the weekends, with a sound system that consisted to putting a microphone to a boom box while the music of Foreigner's "Double Vision" was played for Flex Kavana--the future Rock--was not quite the same feeling. Especially for me, who had grown up going to the matches at the Mid-South Coliseum as a kid That said, the heat and atmosphere was better in a sense for the in-ring product at the Expo. It was smaller building, but the same 800 diehards fans remaining who would still go there, which made them sound much louder than same amount of people spread out over a 11,365-seat arena.
George: What was the locker room like in Memphis?
Scott: A lot of fun. There was a nervous energy backstage before that live morning start-time. Often, we'd get the TV format 25 minutes before we'd be go on the air. For guys like Jerry Lawler, it was no big deal. For young guys like me trying to make an impression, it was nerve-racking.
George: What do you feel like killed Memphis Wrestling from ever being a territory again?
Scott: It was slow though not necessarily painful death that started with Vince McMahon's expansion in 1985. Jarrett and Lawler outlasted all the others in the wrestling war of the '80s. Heck, Jarrett was selling out the Coliseum in 1986 while WWF was struggling to fill the same building with Hulk Hogan and other former longtime Memphis stars. In 1987, Memphis caught fire again with the Tommy Rich, Austin Idol vs. Jerry Lawler feud, with several crowds in the 7,000 to 9,000 range. I think had Jarrett and Vince made the peace earlier and started working together in the late '80s it would have been beneficial for everyone. Instead, by the early '90s, Vince was struggling because he had limited resources from which to pluck young, seasoned talent and Jarrett and Lawler couldn't draw more than 1,300 fans to the Coliseum. By the time Jarrett, Lawler and McMahon started working together it was too late. I worked as a manager on a card that had Lawler, Jeff Jarrett vs. WWF heels Bret Hart and the Undertaker, which drew only 3,000 fans, or 1,500 more than usual. Had that relationship been created earlier, while both promotions were still hot, they could have salvaged a lot of business.
George: There has been some great managers come through the Memphis area such as Sam Bass, Jimmy Hart, Tojo Yamamoto, and Downtown Bruno just to name a few. Who did you learn more of your managing and promo skills from and pat your career from?
Scott: I stole so much from Jimmy Hart and Jim Cornette. Hart's Memphis work from 1980 to 1984 was nothing short of amazing--he made more money in WWF, certainly, but the real Jimmy Hart died when he left Memphis. Well, let's just say it was more of a homage than anything else. I took, I hope, the best from Hart's Memphis run from the best of Cornette's '86 Crockett stuff and tried to make it my own, with maybe a little Paul Heyman tossed in.
George: Why didn't you ever come back to Memphis once Memphis started back with Randy Hale's Power Pro Wrestling?
Scott: (Not relevant. I wasn't in the city.)
George: You came back to Memphis when Corey Maclin was running his creation of Memphis Wrestling but only stayed around for a week. Why didn't you stick around longer?
Scott: I was getting married that year in Malibu and came back to Memphis to tie up some loose ends. As it happened, they happened to be filming that weekend. Kevin Lawler called his dad, who booked me on the spot. It was fun taking the infamous Lawler fist-drop one last time. One funny sidenote to that day: After I took my first-drop after Lawler punched me, an expensive cufflink that my wife had given me flew off in the ring. As I was crawling around on the mat trying to find it, Lawler stomped my hand just as I grabbed it, slicing open my hand. Only my second blade job in the business, I suppose.
George: Do you watch today's product?
Scott: I've made the decision to watch it. It's not something I enjoy all the time. It’s not the product I grew up with. But I'd rather embrace it--somewhat--than shun what's it's become. There's still a lot to like. And the fact that we have more clean more finishes today is a positive thing. The problem I think for most for fans is that wrestling used to be a serious parody of sport--now it's become a silly parody of itself. The mystery, the magic of the product from the '60, '70s and early '80s is gone. It's not entirely Vince's fault. Someone was going to do it. Corporate America was destined to destroy the business. But, off the top of my head, with performers like CM Punk, Randy Orton, Daniel Bryan, Christian and Rey Mysterio, it's hard to disconnect completely from the product. To do so, would be like the old man playing shuffleboard in Florida complaining about the state of the world and the good old days. Still, I think a more serious, sports-minded direction--one with true personal issues and titles that actually are booked to matter instead of being props--is the way of the future. I think WWE will adapt to the threat that is UFC and modify the product. At least, they'd better. If they don't, they're in denial.
George: What are you actually doing now since your not in the wrestling business?
Scott: I work full time as a copy editor for an ad agency in Santa Monica, while also serving as editor of an industry trade publication--I write a quarterly full-color magazine, along with press releases and ad copy. That's in addition to the Kentucky Fried Rasslin' site I publish and the various screenplays I have in development. I also act from time to time, with a few SAG speaking roles to my credit, usually playing the heavy.
George: Your thoughts on the following whom you had the privilege to work with in Memphis:
-Jerry Lawler: Counting his announcing work, he's probably had the greatest career in the business in the last 30 years. He got a rebirth on his career at age 44 in the WWF. His ladder match with Miz was one of the highest-rated segments on RAW in a while--and proved that you didn't need to take crazy bumps to have a suspenseful ladder rematch that told a story. To me, that Lawler vs. Miz ladder match was a reminder that this business is about psychology--that's why Lawler's still working today. From what I understand, he hours away from becoming WWE champion at the PPV following his mom's death before they ultimately went the other way. Even then, some thought an audible should have been called, as the emotion was there. As even Terry Funk would attest, Jerry's probably got more smarts, psychology and charisma than anyone else combined in virtually the history of the business.
- Doug Gilbert: A good guy who took the bullet for me on occasion and let me talk on TV when booker Randy Hales didn't want me to speak. He saw something in me. A good, old-fashioned talent who refused to take shortcuts like steroids to get beyond indies. But he never had the charisma or athleticism of his brother, so he was limited as the business evolved. In the '70s, Doug Gilbert, probably would have done a lot better--he was a throwback and had a good mind for the business. But he carried that same chip on his shoulder a la Eddie's, which burned several bridges for him.
-Tommy Rich: God bless, Tommy. I was such a fan of his as a kid. The classic cautionary tale of too much, too much. Perhaps the biggest tribute I can give to Tommy is to relate the story of how he got into the business. Jarrett's wife, the former Deborah Marlin [Eddie Marlin's daughter], used to play with Tommy Richardson [later shorted to "Rich"] as kids. Jarrett told me that when Tommy got out of high school, he wanted to be a wrestler, so Deborah asked Jarrett, "Please, can you help him?" So Jarrett had him come to the farm early one morning, and when Jerry came out in his pajamas, he told him, "Tommy, this is gonna get you in shape before I can train you." In reality, he was trying to run him off. Jarrett had a water pipe that he had running from the house to the horse barn. He told Tommy to cut the water pipe and take it up all the way to the barn. He gave him a pick and a shovel. Jerry looks out there three hours later, and Tommy's still out there yanking on that water pipe. Tommy went through every possible thing Jarrett could do to discourage him--but he wouldn't give up. Tommy had his little run in Memphis, and then promoter Jim Barnett in Atlanta wanted him. He went there right when the SuperStation took off, and he became a national star. Right place, right time--but with a lot hard work to put himself in that position.
-Lance Russell: I can't say enough about Lance. I grew up with him. He indirectly taught me so much about psychology in the way he could not only get you to not only discard the sheer craziness of some of the angles unfolding before your eyes but also believe in it in a way that seemed completely logical. Lawler had that same gift. Together, they could make the most outrageous situation seem completely logical in Memphis. Conversely, they both could get over the seriousness of a title situation. After years of working with pros, Lance was about to carry greenhorns later in his career to a decent promo--like me--much like a traditional NWA world champion of the day. Ironically enough, when Lou Thesz died, Dave Meltzer quoted Lance as saying something along the lines of, "In my mind, he could never die." In my heart, I've always felt the same way about Lance.
George: You have a website called Kentucky Fried Rasslin.. Tell the readers a little about your website.
Scott: Basically, it's an ongoing memoir of my days as a fan to my days as a performer in Memphis wrestling, including analyses of angles and matches via YouTube, reviews of the current McMahon product and stories from the old-school days of working with the likes of "Stone Cold" Steve Austin, The Rock, Jerry Lawler and Mick Foley.
George: What are your thoughts on the recent passing of "The Macho Man" Randy Savage?
Scott: I took it pretty hard. I'd followed Randy from his outlaw ICW days in Memphis to his first bout with Lawler at the Mid-South Coliseum--I was in attendance for this incredible match that had been four years in making in December 1983 In Memphis, with Randy going so far as to cut a promo in the King's lawn in 1979. I was 6 when Elvis died in Memphis, and I recall the mad run on Presley albums--my mom outclawed a woman at Pop Tunes on Summer Avenue for the last copy of "Blue Hawaii." Meanwhile, I've been watching Savage matches a lot the last two weeks--my wife has been incredibly patient. Other than the obvious, I'll leave you with what Jarrett told me about Randy. His wrestlers were instructed to never engage Savage and especially the ICW's Bob Roop, who was a stretcher, when they were running opposition. Dundee wasn't so lucky, as Savage kicked his ass one night. Anyway, when the Poffos' group died--which Jarrett knew it would eventually--the Memphis promoter immediately called him about working for him, which seemed to emotionally move this so-called Macho Man to tears. Years later, when WWF came calling, he asked Jarrett's opinion, who advised him to go because he knew Vince was going to win the war in the end and it was Randy's best chance at making money that could set him for life. At the time, guys were given bonuses for jumping immediately, instead of doing the traditional thing and doing jobs on the way out. Which was, ironically enough, McMahon's argument against Bret Hart over the Montreal incident. Regardless, Savage did jobs nearly every night on the way out, including a classic loser-leaves-town bout with Lawler. He did the honorable thing out of respect for Jerry Jarrett.
George: What are your future plans?
Scott: I hear they're bringing back managers to WWE--I'm available. I think I could do wonders for Jack Swagger, whose lisp should never have been made an issue. Jack has all the tools--he needs a mouthpiece. Plus, he's one of the few current starts who's actually taller than me. Ah, but that'll never happen. My wrestling script has passed from Kevin Smith's Miramax crowd to Madonna's production company to MTV to Adam Sandler. It's a smart script, but sort of the "before" aspect, the comedy aspect of the biz before the bleakness of "The Wrestler," which I thought was brilliant. Still, the '70s- and '80s-era wresting business is the story I want to tell--the fun, wild comedy of this dual world that hovered between fantasy and reality. "The Wrestler" captured that story brilliantly of guys on the way down; however, the ride up was a hell of a lot of fun and deserves to be told. I'd like to see that story told.
George: Are there any closing words?
Scott: "For Dave Brown, this is Lance Russell saying so long everybody." (I believe that's more accurately how Lance signed off each week.)
George: Scott I want to thank you for your time and wish you the best of luck.
Scott: Mercy, daddy. Mercy.
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