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Mike Johnson: Well, you mentioned you only have so much money to spend. You're investing it here. So, what's the long term goal here? Because the goal cannot be Billy Corgan and Dave Lagana want to produce NWA Powerrr to put on their social media channels forever. Obviously, you have a pay-per-view coming up in December. It immediately sells out in the studio, which is great for you. Shows immediate, a very intense loyalty from your fans that are in the Georgia area already, and I'm sure fans that are traveling in from it. But there has to be a longterm play here. What is the longterm play that you're willing to disclose at this point? What's the plan here?
Mike Johnson: Obviously, we're just two weeks into the show, but you've never been someone to make a rash decision in my opinion. I remember when you bought the NWA and I broke the initial story that you guys were looking at buying it. The reaction was "Why would he do that?" And my response was, "He obviously has an idea, and it's going to be whatever he wants it to be." Several years later, I think anybody who questioned why you were buying it, realizes why they were being silly making that knee jerk reaction, having that immediate hot take. But at the same time, you've gotten into this point, but this can't be what the end game is. In your mind, what is the end game for the NWA now that we've seen Power revealed and it's been running for a couple of weeks?
Billy Corgan: Sure. Well, a little bit of context because I think it's a really important question. One is... And I'm saying this as a model that everyone can understand because of course it's a once in a generation type thing. The UFC when it was for sale was being offered from anywhere from $1 million to $2 million. It sold a few years ago for $4.123 billion. So, obviously somebody made an investment and people spent a lot of money building up that investment till at one point where it became a billion dollar company. So when you think about building a brand, you can't think strictly in terms of receipts. Money coming in and money going out.
Billy Corgan: The Smashing Pumpkins in the first couple of years ran basically at zero. But after three, four years of running at zero, we were a very high value band. Wrestling is a little bit different. So, the way I look at it is, and I'm going to use really stupid math. If you said to me, "Okay. In the next five years, you're going to lose $5 million, but the NWA in five years is going to be worth $15 million or $20 million as a company." You would say that was a good investment. Just like a startup, a dotcom type brand. So, we look at our value on the market. So, let me spin this into some perspective. We have money coming in now really for the first time because of the show. So, we're not actually that far off from being at a point where it's comfortable and not uncomfortable to run the kind of money loss that we're running. But secondarily, when you look at the market as it's shoring up right now, and I'll use your term. We're in an arm's race. Well, when you look at the world of WWE and you look at the world that is being built by AW, and of course New Japan's just announced that they're going to be trying to enter US more aggressively, and of course Impact has bought Access TV. Well, as those people are competing for viewers and attention, we're suddenly the hottest free agent on the market. We have a lot of interest from a lot of people, why? Because suddenly the NWA name and Nick and the championship can add box office instantly. Now, you may say a Tony Khan or a Vince McMann doesn't want to anything to do with the NWA today. Six months from now, that may completely change. When suddenly you're in a situation where adding the NWA in the picture or adding a title match with Nick in the picture is suddenly the difference between winning a very important moment and maybe not winning that important moment. So, this is where you have to look at brand value and what the brand is worth on the street, as opposed to just dollars and cents. We've had tons of discussions with people about TV, and nothing has clicked. At the end of the day, and I think it's shown through the Power show, I want absolute control over the product. I'm completely convinced now that we have to have absolute control over the product. Our vision, Dave Lagana's and I's vision is very different. It's obvious it's different. Where we were allowed to run free with things like the Deletion series with the Hardy's and things like that, we were able to show real growth in the business that is demanding growth and wants growth. So, we're going to ride our bet all the way down the line and see where we end up.
Mike Johnson: You mentioned having complete creative control over the brand. Talk a little bit about what that's been like in terms of finding the partnership with Lagana, because Lagana's the one beating the drum and the Vice President of the NWA, and has been very involved in pretty much every nook and cranny of building this brand since you've purchased it. Talk a little bit about what it's like collaborating with him creatively, and are there moments when you bang heads together because you're on polar opposite sides of a decision? And what's that like because obviously the partnership is working? Talk a little bit about finding... It's not easy to find someone that you partner with that you can always have a great creative collaboration with. You know. You've been through how many moments where you've banged heads with people.
Billy Corgan: Wait. I thought you were going to say, "You've been through how many band members."
Mike Johnson: [Laugh[ I wasn't. I was trying to be politically correct, but you said it, not me. But what's it like trying to find that perfect balance with Lagana or with anybody that you're working with on a creative sense?
Billy Corgan: David and I are shockingly aligned and I think it goes back to those two years in the trenches an TNA where we had lots of offline discussions about how to deal with the politics, what we would have liked to see, and then, it bears pointing out that I think the day after I was fired, in quotations, by Dixie Carter, although she had one 1.83 million of my dollars in her pocket, the day after I was fired, David resigned. And David said, "I'm coming with you." And so, something that happened between us in those two years that I was at TNA and he had been there obviously longer. Matt Conway, who's the big other spoke in this wheel that maybe doesn't get enough credit, even though Matt's not necessarily in the wrestling business, Matt was there working with the during tapings, and remains a very close friend. The relationship that we formed in that and sort of really dealing with wrestling on a day to day basis, that carried out the door when I left TNA and Dave came with me. We spent months saying, "What are we going to do? Are we going to really start Billy Corgan wrestling?" And then, of course, we fell on the idea of purchasing the NWA. And that started this crazy journey, so Dave was with me through the lawsuit with Impact and with Dixie. He's been there with me every step of the way and we're shockingly aligned. It's pretty crazy. I think Dave's television background really comes into play. I follow Dave down the rabbit hole a lot. I'll pitch a lot of my crazy ideas and he rarely says, "Oh, that's a bad idea." He's always like, "I like what you're saying, but maybe we just tweak it this little bit." So, it's a lot of tweaking. It gets so blurry on the tweaking, at some point we can't even remember whose idea it was first. But yeah, what you're really seeing there with Ten Pounds of Gold and the Powerrr series, it's really a shared vision. To his credit, he said, "Look, you're the one putting the money on the line. I'm going to follow you because you're the one with the real risk here." And so he's been incredibly supportive and I can't... Between him and Nick Aldis, that's where my real pride comes in. I'm really proud of the roster that we're putting out there right now, but when you really look at the guys behind the scenes, Nick being one of them, Joseph being another, they stood there with me through these two years as we figured out this business model, and then finally made our decision to jump into the market full force. It's been incredible. It's a great story of even just guys trusting each other and putting their egos aside and really saying, "Let's just do what's best for the business. Let's get this thing across."
Mike Johnson: How much has the phone started ringing from people who were perhaps trepidations, I'll use the word, about the chances of this working, versus now they are extremely excited to come onboard and potentially be part of this? I feel like the duality of being a wrestling promoter is the second you decide to do it, everyone's your best friend. But the second you start to make your decisions, suddenly the people that were your best friends are now angry about these decisions that you've made because they don't benefit you, or benefit them I should say. I've seen it with lots of independent wrestling promoters on upwards the ladder. How quickly have the tides turned from people who were like, "Eh, I'm not so sure about this." To "Put me in, coach. I'm ready to play."?
Billy Corgan: Yeah. The phone's definitely ringing, but we've had a long two years here. Two year window. There was that initial thing when I bought the company. The phone rang off the hook because everyone saw that maybe there was an easy payday there. And then, we got these kind of weird questions, like, "Well, if you guys aren't running TV, what are you doing?" We'd say things like, "Well, we're brand building." "Well, what does that mean?" And then, we'd run a show. We ran NWA 70 one year ago. We drew the biggest gate in the history of the fairgrounds. And then people are like, "Okay. What's next?" And then, you're like, "Well, we've proven that can work, but that's not necessarily where we need to be. We need to really have a TV content model." And then, we got into a relationship with Ring of Honor. So, all along the way we've seen people kind of come and go. So, in many ways, they've kind of worn out his welcome. We're very, very cynical about why people are calling. Look, at the end of the day it's a business. It's an independent contractor business. So, I don't really mind the phone calls. I don't really mind the email from the friend you haven't heard from for four months who suddenly wants to know because the show's just debuted and racked up half a million views on social media. I mean, it doesn't really bother me because at the end of the day, they need to earn their money, and especially, if I'm friendly with particular talents, I want them to succeed.
Mike Johnson: What lessons have you and Lagana and team NWA learned from the, I guess the algorithms from the different platforms? Is there any information that you can wean from it this early on in the race in terms of how certain talents are getting over or is the Austin Idol commercial getting over? And I popped huge for the Tony Falk cameo. Things like that.
Billy Corgan: We've got more coming.
Mike Johnson: I'm just waiting for George South to show up. I feel like that's the ultimate cameo for the NWA. But what sort of information have we been able to wean from the impressions and the algorithms, the things like that, from Facebook and YouTube and whatnot that show that, "All right. We're on the right path here. This is something that's taking off that we didn't even expect when we were putting these shows together"?
Billy Corgan: I'm answering the question a little more generally and I'll be try to be more specific. I think what we've seen early with the head-to-head battle between NXT and AEW is that there are a lot of fans out there that want an alternate choice for their wrestling. And so, we've benefited from AW Dark, in terms of people coming from the AEW socials being recommended by YouTube over to the NWA. So, what that tells me is that that audience that wants an alternate content to, let's call it the WWE universe, and of course many of them do watch the WWE. It's not a black or white versus versus. But that crowd that wants something different or is looking for something different is finding the NWA and they're staying and they're coming back. So, I think it's really cool to be part of something maybe a little earlier than we would have expected.
Billy Corgan: And that's fine. That's great. Certainly working with Ring of Honor has benefited from that. Obviously, Ring of Honor's relationship benefited the Elite guys. So, that larger pool of things that is happening that runs through New Japan, Ring of Honor, AEW and now the NWA, I think there's something going on there, and I think the data still isn't all in, and no pun intended but I think it will take us a few years to where all of us, including yourself, will look back and say, "Wow, there was a bigger wave coming in we could have even imagined." And I do credit Tony Khan for having a sense that that wave could be commoditized and taken advantage of and putting his money where his mouth is and putting up big bucks to get them on Turner and crafting a deal because if you'd asked me a year ago, I would say, "Yeah, there's definitely an alternative crowd out there, but not as big as people think it is." And now I'm starting to realize that it actually is that big.
Mike Johnson: With the reaction that you've had to the show thus far, is there already a sense of "Hey, maybe we should put it into a bigger building because we can get pack more people in"? Or is it sort of the mentality of the smaller the club, the more intimate the club, the better the vibe of the show.
Billy Corgan: Sure. Allow me to answer this slightly differently. I think what I see a lot of early on, and it kind of makes me laugh is, and maybe this is just keep it simple, stupid wrestling crowd stuff. But they suddenly have decided the NWA is kind of like the throwback league. It's totally incorrect. We love embracing the legacy of the NWA. It gives me a lot of pleasure and I think it's very honorable to the people that I grew up watching. But the NWA is ultimately going to be quite possibly the most forward leaning company in the world. It's just taking its time to build that to our vision. So, the NWA Power show is exactly what it is. It's meant to be a studio wrestling show. Even as we pitched it to different people in the wrestling business, and obviously it's easier to pitch it now that it's up and running, we've always said we don't see it as a 50-week a year series. I think it would be ideal if it was somewhere between a 30 or 40 week a year series, so that it wouldn't burn itself out. We wouldn't burn the crowd out, and it could be more of a fun thing, like a high voltage thing when it was there. Then, when it went away, you would miss it until it came back. We don't see it as a 50 week a year content model, nor do we think we would ever even have to run a 50 week a year content model. Personally, and this is just my personal opinion, I think the 50 week a year or 52 week year content model is outdated for the way people are consuming media. It puts a lot of pressure on the companies to churn out a lot of stuff that maybe they don't feel particularly strong about. I'm more on the other side. I'd rather put out less and have it be of a higher quality. And so, that's my thinking is that maybe the NWA would be represented by three, four, five different series in the end that wouldn't run all the time. And maybe in that, it would create a different vision of our world, if that makes any sense.
Mike Johnson: No. Makes perfect sense. With the advent of NWA Powerrr, what does this mean? This came up to me in my mind because you mentioned the multiple series. Ten Pounds of Gold. How does the NWA Power series change how consistently we see Ten Pounds of Gold going forward?
Billy Corgan: I would like it to be consistently run. I think the story of what goes on behind the scenes, getting to power, getting in a power, if we're talking about right now, this particular timeframe we're talking about hiring more people to create more content. Actually Dave was just pitching me on another series idea he has right now that's sort of related around the Powerrr series. And so, it's very possible within the next two three months we'll have consistently three full-time series running.
Part Three coming tomorrow!
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