For Part 1, click here. Click here if you are a PWInsider.com Elite subscriber.
MC: Let's talk about Punk for a minute. As you're talking, I'm remembering...'Oh
ya, the 55 minute TLC match, the 93 minute match', that's some crazy stuff you
guys did back then.
CH: Ya, and that's when I was fat too.
MC: Well ya, you say the thing about the look, but I mean, your cardio can't be
that bad if you're doing that.
CH: Oh no my cardio was never bad, it was just my physical appearance. You know,
I had a shitty diet and I was never going to the gym, that's all. It didn't
matter how hard I wrestled, or what I was doing or what I could do. And then
ultimately, you want to have a product where, you turn on the tv and glance at
the guy and go
"Alright." You don't want to have a roster full of guys where you flip on the
TV
and go "Ahh that guy looks like sh**." They're not going to give that person the
chance to sit and watch and go "You know what, he looks like shit but he's a
damn good wrestler." That's not what - you're not going to make money like that.
You can have a few people like that, that can get away with that. Paul Heyman
was good at taking guys who didn't look like much, and exploit something about
them to make them different. But you can't do that with a whole roster of
people. You've gotta have some guys who look good; you've got to have some good
wrestlers.
MC: Do you think that's why - I'm gonna veer off a bit here - Samoa Joe hasn't
been on tv in awhile since Hogan and Bischoff took over TNA? Do you think that's
one of the reasons why they're not pushing him like we all probably think he
should be?
CH: I can't really say, because I haven't really been watching their stuff. I
don't really watch WWE and TNA...one because it gets kinda frustrating to know
the potential and see what's presented. And that's not to say that it's all bad,
but you know, you have your favourites and you want to see them do well, and you
get frustrated when they don't. I will say - so as far as Joe I don't know, I
can't even begin to postulate what may be going on with Hogan and those guys. I
mean maybe Hogan likes him, maybe he doesn't like him; maybe they've got
something brewing for him, who knows. I will say though that I think the NXT
show is awesome. I've watched all four episodes and they get so much out of
that, and I can't believe they didn't do this sooner. They've been putting guys
out there for years to just sink and swim, and so many guys have just floundered
because there's no association, there's no reason for the people to get into
them. They've done interviews with these guys, they couple them with a guy who
the fans are already familiar with. They interact...it's perfect, I hope it goes
on forever. I don't know how much they can get out of it but I hope it does
well, because you know, you can see all these guys coming out and making
something of themselves. I think there's a whole lot that they can do with it.
I'm really happy they're doing it; I'm really happy for Danielson.
MC: He looks phenomenal eh?
CH: Yeah yeah, you know people bitching about 'He's not winning,' or that he's
wrestling Khali, who gives a shit? He's out there, and this is what's going to
make him. He'll get a chance to wrestle eventually. Why put him out there to
have long wrestling matches when people don't know who he is? It might burn them
out, might leave a bad taste in their mouth. Get him over first, and then let
him do what he wants.
MC: The way they're booking it - he's lost every week so far - reminds me of
when Benoit first won the Royal Rumble to go on to Wrestlemania, and they start
the buildup by booking him to lose to Michaels and Triple H right away, because
they were building up the sympathy for him, and it seems like that's what
they're doing with Danielson. So that when he does win it'll actually mean
something.
CH: Yeah, it's kind of like a TV show, where in Episode 1, they lay down the
foundation for what's going to be the story for the whole season. You know, Miz and
Danielson, first thing on the first episode. Main event on the first episode:
Danielson and Jericho. So regardless of whether he wins the competition or not,
they're going to do something with him, and he's already more over than any of the
other guys. And plus, no knock on Bryan, you see him in there with Jericho, you
see how small is he. Hell you see him in there with me, you see how small he is,
and it's just a testament to him to get that building moving, to have those fans
who are used to the John Cenas and the Batistas and such, to you know, be
credible. And it's up to the announcers to put him over, which for the most
part, they have.
MC: Back to the matches with Punk, looking back at those matches, what you know
now versus what you knew then, having gone so long in those matches, is there
things you'd change now if you had the chance to?
CH: Uh, no, because it was a different era, it was a different crowd. What we
did worked when we did it. Would it work now? No, probably not, because we
didn't have the same fans. He and I grew up in IWA Mid-South, we wrestled twice
a week there for a couple years, and the people who came to the shows were like
an extended family. So they'd seen us go through our character changes and
whatnot, so when we went out there, they didn't care how long the match was,
they wanted to see it. So fortunately, even though we were young and didn't
necessarily know exactly what we were doing, we were able to build those matches
in a way that they were memorable, and are still being talked about eight years
later.
MC: Do you think because you 'grew up' in IWA Mid-South, that's why Ian (Rotten)
gave you the chance against Danielson and put you over him, which opened the
door for you with Ring of Honor, or is that just kind of...
CH: Ehh, that's just kind of the thing that happened. Ian always took really
great care of me. He gave me great opportunities, and when Punk and Cabana got
picked up by Ring of Honor and I didn't, I think he - I don't know if he took a
little offense to that, but he uh...Ian's Ian, you know, maybe he gets on some
people's nerves, but I think deep down he's got a really good heart, and he was
really protective of me. I wasn't getting the outside bookings that the other
guys were; I wasn't getting the opportunities that they were. He was giving me
more than enough opportunities with his group just to show...putting me in there
with AJ Styles, or putting me in there with Jerry Lynn, or Sabu, or you know. I
was 4-time IWA Heavyweight Champion so I was definitely a representative of the
company. I was loyal to Ian, and Ian gave me many opportunities and took care of
me.
MC: Interesting that you mention Jerry Lynn actually, there was a lot of flack
when he had his run here with Ring of Honor last year, which kinda shocked me
because he's...kinda amazing in the ring. What was it like to get to work with
him - he seems like the kind of guy who on his worst day would be better than
most.
CH: Ya, and the thing that's so shocking about Jerry is how humble he is. He
genuinely cares about what other people think about his matches, even though he
has so much more experience than us. He really looks to us to see what our
opinions are, and then if there's some sort of disagreement, he'll state his
case and we'll state our case, he's just...you can't really do that with a lot
of people, you know. Once people reach a certain veteran level, it's kinda like
their way or no way, but Jerry's never been like that. He's always been a
pleasure to work with, he's always in great shape, he's evolved his in-ring
stuff. You know he does still do a lot of the stuff he did when he was on top,
but he has added new things. He did adapt well to the Ring of Honor style, and
what I think - I don't want to say his downfall, but I think that whatever
negative feedback he got was...the way he was presented was an underdog, and
underdogs can only go so far. When they finally win, they're not the underdog
anymore. And I think maybe his series of matches were drawn out a little longer
than the fans would've liked, so it was something that they saw coming, and then
it happened, and then he got a great reaction when he won the title, and often
times his matches would get great reactions, but overall (the fans) were just
kind of over it, I think. It's a shame, but it happens. You still go back and
look back at his title reign, and he had some really great matches, so it's
really hard to say what popular belief was, because you can read on the internet
and see what people are talking about, or you can see the live reaction and you
know, look at the impact on things. I think the way his title reign went into
Aries' title reign, I think it worked really well.
MC: Interesting segue there, Jerry Lynn's reign and work here was one of the
earlier things that Adam Pearce booked. You were here for the end of Gabe's
term, how do you feel Adam's done? I remember when he first started there was a
lot of backlash.
CH: Well of course there's a lot of backlash. Ring of Honor has a lot of diehard
fans, and when you're such a diehard fan, you feel a sense of entitlement, and
while the fans were complaining about stuff near the end of Gabe's run, nobody
expected him to be gone. I think the general feeling was like 'Wow, this big
change happened, and we didn't even have a say in it,' you're automatically
prone to dislike whatever's going to happen. So I think that's what it was, and
whenever things change, and...I mean, it was Adam, it wasn't like he'd booked
territories before, and...he had some booking experience, but not at the level
of Ring of Honor, of course not. So he had to find his niche; the company had to
go through growing pains. We had to lose people, we had to sign people. It's
just a lot of things happening at once, and while our internet buzz may not be
what it once was, the fact remains that our shows are still packed. Like last
night, 800 people in Detroit, when there was a really slow presale...
MC: And I've been to Detroit where there's only 450 people when the (internet)
buzz was big.
CH: Exactly! Yeah yeah, there's this huge turnout last night in a great new
venue. First time we ran the venue too, so people want to see our stuff. The
last few TV tapings I've been to - aside the one with all the snow - it was
completely packed. And it's new fans, new people...and maybe not all these
people are hopping on message boards to review these shows...
MC: Which is probably not a bad thing, really you only get the negative press...
CH: Yeah...press is press, whatever, people talking is people talking. I don't
really care one way or the other. But, we have you know, the fans who have moved
on to other things or who have just moved on from wrestling in general, we have
replaced with different people...I'm sure we'll have a good turnout tonight, and
ya I'm really please with the way things are now. We've got (Jim) Cornette with
us too, and he's completely invaluable. The eye that he brings to our product is
amazing. His viewpoint, his thoughts, and his willingness to be modern. It's not
like he's trying do all these Smokey Mountain ideas...
MC: Which a lot of people still try to say he hasn't gotten modern...
CH: Yeah, well I will say that he has taken a big liking to UFC the last couple
years, and he really went in deep to see what made the UFC so wildly successful,
and he's trying to convey certain things from that to our product, and I
think...you know, some fans may not like what's going on right now, but you
can't deny the fact that all of our guys work incredibly hard. We bust our asses
out there in every match, from the opening to the main - especially the main
events. I think, that's just as strong as ever, our main events, our semi-main
events, our title matches.
MC: It's funny that you mention that. I brought one of my friends last time who
wasn't a wrestling fan, and he was just blown away by (Kenny) Omega; he just
went all-out in that match (ROH World Title match vs. Austin Aries).
CH: Absolutely, and I think the diehard fans have seen so much Ring of Honor,
seen so many matches that I think it's hard to please them like we've pleased
them in the past. You know, so much has been done, so much has happened, they've
seen variations of all these different moves, that it really has to be an
individual thing where, the two guys go out there and tell a story, and blow
(the fans) away.
Still to come: Working in Japan, the legendary Kenta Kobashi, and whether or not
there is a concussion epidemic in pro wrestling.
If you enjoy PWInsider.com you can check out the AD-FREE PWInsider Elite section, which features exclusive audio updates, news, our critically acclaimed podcasts, interviews and more by clicking here!