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Jim Ross welcomes us to the Legends of Wrestling. He says the esteemed panel will be discussing their favorite rivalries in this episode. With him is Jerry Lawler, Michael Hayes, Mick Foley, and Eric Bischoff.
J.R. says the first rivalry they’ll discuss dates back to Foley as a teenager. Foley puts over Bruiser Brody vs. Antonio Inoki, Dynamite Kid vs. Tiger Mask, and Terry Funk vs. Jerry Lawler were some of his favorite feuds. They show Funk and Lawler in a bloody match in an empty arena and I wonder if it’s a gimmick match or an early-1990s WCW house show. Foley says Jimmy Snuka vs. Don Muraco was the rivalry that made him want to be a wrestler. Footage is shown of Snuka diving over the top rope onto Muraco and the ensuing brawl on the floor.
J.R. asks why that feud stands out to Foley. When Muraco provoked Snuka to dive over the top rope in the build-up to the cage match, Foley says nobody knew what Muraco said to set off Snuka and he doesn’t know if they could get away with that now.
Footage is shown of Vince McMahon interviewing Snuka during a Championship Wrestling program broadcast June 24, 1983. The arena is empty and they sit in a row of wooden chairs. McMahon said controversy follows Snuka, from his dealings with Capt. Lou Albano to his divorce and his alliance with Buddy Rogers. As soon as Vince brings up the situation with Muraco, Snuka gets a disgusted, uncomfortable look on his face. Snuka apologizes to the people for losing his temper due to Muraco’s antics. Vince asks if there is a conspiracy against Snuka in wrestling. Snuka just doesn’t understand why Albano keeps sending men like Muraco after him. Snuka removes his headband and he has a bandage on his forehead. Snuka starts to flip, but Vince calms him. Snuka starts grunting and shaking, then goes nuts and starts tossing chairs in an awesome promo that, sadly, wouldn’t work today.
Foley tells the same story about hitchhiking to the Madison Square Garden cage match that he’s talked and written about in the past. Lawler really seems to enjoy listening to the stories. They show footage of Bob Backlund versus the Masked Superstar on the MSG card on October 17, 1983, the night of the famous cage match. The last couple minutes of the cage match are shown. Snuka makes his comeback and a leaping headbutt sends Muraco over the top rope and out of the cage to win the match. Snuka goes outside the cage and throws Muraco back into the ring. He suplexes Muraco and then climbs the ropes. The crowd goes nuts when he turns and climbs to the top of the cage, gives the “I Love You†sign, and hits the Superfly splash.
Foley says seeing Snuka on top of the cage was seeing his life’s ambition flash before him. He says it was a majestic sight, with camera bulbs flashing and blood cascading down his face. Lawler asks if this happened before or after Foley jumped off the roof. Foley says it was after. Hayes calls Foley’s leap the origin of backyard wrestling and Foley groans.
Hayes says Snuka had an animalistic sexual magnetism and J.R. says he was Siegfried and Roy’s favorite Samoan wrestler. Lawler asks Foley if Snuka’s leap made up for the fact that he lost the match. Foley said he learned it’s not who wins or loses, it’s who makes the biggest impression.
Foley said one of the biggest moments of his life was when Snuka’s daughter came up to him with tears in her eyes and said, “I can’t thank you enough for what you did for my father,†referring to his incredible May 26, 1997 interview with J.R. on Monday Night Raw.
Hayes says that Muraco was and is still a great, fun guy and a consummate heel. He says Muraco was a top guy at the time and doing the leap onto him was what made it memorable. Foley talks about Muraco’s backstage promo before the cage match, when he said, “Do you think I care about people hating me and spitting on me when this is what I set out for my entire life?†Foley says Muraco’s promo made him feel like he had to be there.
J.R. and Lawler talk about the workers back then not remembering lines that were written for them. J.R. asks Foley about Snuka’s time in ECW beginning in 1992. Foley says Snuka helped give ECW credibility and said all of his promos were unintentionally funny. Foley says Snuka had a prolific history of partying, even by wrestling standards, and Hayes says, “I ain’t saying nothing!†and laughs. J.R. says Snuka had a prolific past even by Sopranos standards. Hayes said he was a big-time performer everywhere. J.R. asks Bischoff if Snuka or Muraco ever passed through AWA when he was there and Bischoff says they did. Bischoff says they were different than many of the AWA stars because they didn’t live in the area and would come through occasionally. When they did come through occasionally, it was a big deal.
Foley tells a story that he says may not make the air. The Rock told him about an incident during Snuka’s time in AWA. Greg Gagne told Verne Gagne that he thought Snuka was “messed†up, though Foley lets us know “messed†is a substitution for a different word. According to legend, Snuka said, “You think the Superfly is messed up? You THINK the Superfly’s messed up?†Then Snuka went into a toilet stall, where several loud snorting noises were heard. Snuka then emerged from the stall and said, “NOW the Superfly is messed up!†Hayes seems to get a real kick out of the drug story.
A short break shows commercials for the Horsemen DVD and Foley’s book.
Back from break, J.R. says Hayes’ favorite rivalry is also one of his own favorites. Hayes says his pick is the Midnight Express vs. the Rock-n-Roll Express. He says he has a warm heart for tag team wrestling and Lawler says, “I can’t imagine that.†Hayes says the two teams who were able to do what few teams other than the Freebirds, the Von Erichs, and the Road Warriors, could do, and that’s be bigger than the top singles match on a card. He says the combination of these teams, each with two guys who were floundering singles wrestlers, at best, but combined became megastars.
They show a video clip of the rivalry. J.R. said Jerry Jarrett of Memphis and Bill Watts of Mid-South made a talent trade, with Watts trading Khrusher Khruschev and Rick Rude for Ricky Morton, Dennis Condrey, and Jim Cornette. J.R. says it showed how out of touch Jarrett was at the time, but wouldn’t giving up two then-struggling singles guys and a manager taking the backseat to Jimmy Hart and receiving Khruschev and Rude in return sound like a good decision? J.R. says Watts put Bobby Eaton, Condrey, and Cornette together and their feud with Morton and Robert Gibson superseded anything the Junkyard Dog ever done.
Hayes says that if it wasn’t for Gibson, Hayes wouldn’t have been able to get into the business. Hayes was a 15-year-old fan hanging out with Ron Starr and helping Starr “get rid of some things he had.†Hayes thinks it’s funny, while Lawler looks at the floor and Bischoff fakes a grin. Hayes says this led to him hanging out with Gibson at the bowling alley, bowling and playing pool for money. Gibson offered him a spot on the ring crew, it got him in the business and he and Gibson good friends. He puts over Gibson’s brother, Ricky Gibson, as underrated. Hayes says Robert went to Memphis and was doing okay and Ricky had already been there for a long time and was floundering. Hayes tells Lawler, “You guys put them together.†Everyone says Jimmy Hart took credit for putting the R-n-R Express together and Lawler says Hart is a liar, that he, not Hart, is the man who created the team. The panel starts antagonizing him and then he thinks they’re just ribbing him about Hart. Foley asks if Lawler ever imagined him and Bischoff buddying up together, referring to ribbing Lawler. Hayes says anything to do with Memphis, Lawler did it and Lawler agrees.
Lawler says he and Jerry Jarrett co-owned the Memphis territory. They would take turns booking, each doing it six months at a time. He Lawler says Jarrett, like Mr. McMahon, is a micromanager. He put a lot of thought into everything, but Lawler was off-the-cuff when booking. Jarrett put together Steve Keirn and Stan Lane, the Fabulous Ones, made Jackie Fargo their mentor and they were unbelievably successful. When it came Lawler’s turn to book, he tried to one-up Jarrett. He went to Wal-Mart and bought a bunch of bandanas, he called Morton and Gibson into the locker room, cut their t-shirts, tied bandanas around their boots and arms. They thought it was a rib. He says it clicked and they, along with the Freebirds and the Midnight Express, were responsible for the 1980s becoming a tag team era.
Hayes says the Midnight Express was just thrown together. He says Eaton was a great performer in the ring, but J.R. says Eaton had the verbal skills of Harpo Marx. J.R. and Hayes both say that’s where Jim Cornette came in. Hayes says he hated Cornette, but not any more. Lawler says Cornette started as a photographer at shows. J.R. calls Cornette Paul Heyman with a Southern accent. Hayes says Cornette absorbed everything because he loved Lawler and Bill Dundee and he became one of the best promo guys ever. Hayes says magic happened when they were put together.
Hayes says it was a bad trade for Memphis and Lawler disagrees. Lawler says Memphis had too much talent and it was overkill to have the Rock-n-Roll Express on the same card as the Fabulous Ones. Bischoff agrees says they both looked like 80s hair bands, which is also why the gimmicks worked. Lawler says they used music videos to help get both R-n-R and the Fabulous Ones over. Hayes and Bischoff start joking about Jimmy Hart being responsible for the music videos. Lawler says Hart was just a backup singer for the Gentrys. Lawler said even with the trade, they still had too much talent at the time and it worked out well for all, including the wrestlers. Instead of the Rock-n-Roll Express being undercard guys, they went to Mid-South and became the focus of attention. It seems like there are little digs being made, with Lawler defending Memphis and J.R. a Mid-South guy.
J.R. says when he went to work for Crockett, the Rock-n-Roll Express also went there and the Midnight Express were in World Class Championship Wrestling in Texas. J.R. said that when the Midnights came to Charlotte, even though the territory had the Andersons and other top teams, the two Expresses lit it up. They show the 1986 World Tag Team Title change when Condrey hits Morton with the tennis racket to give the Midnight Express the championship. The Rock-n-Roll Express cuts a promo and Morton calls Eaton’s partner “Dennis Condritch.â€ÂÂÂÂ
J.R. says he is always asked, “Why aren’t there any great tag teams any more?†J.R. says it’s a lack of quality talent depth. In the 80s, J.R. says any of the panel could name five teams they could put on top and draw money. He says it’s not a tag team business any more. Bischoff says the lack of territories for wrestlers to develop in has a lot to do with the lack of talent depth and that the number of hours of television content they produce today is vastly different than it was 10, 15, or 20 years ago. He says if you have four really talented guys, as a producer, the pressure is on you to spread those guys out over the course of an hour. He says it’s tough to put four talented guys on in one segment.
Hayes says the two tag teams knew they were never supposed to be in equal standing with Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair and they said, “Screw that. Watch what we do in the ring†and then they stole the show. Foley said they also knew they weren’t going to be broken up in three months because the company needed something for TV. Foley says they’ve succeeded everywhere they went, and he watched them last year and there’s still that magic there. He says Vince thinks a tag team only means something when it’s two megastars teamed up together and now almost every successful team is made up of two wrestlers who were already successful before they were paired together. He adds that if you’re in a tag team in WWE, it’s almost a put-down, that you’re not seen as a top-level talent.
J.R. says his favorite rivalry was two singles wrestlers who had a great supporting cast around them, Ric Flair and Dusty Rhodes. They show a clip of Rhodes and Flair and the voice-over guy talks about their differences and says that they traded the NWA World Title for the better part of a decade.
J.R. says the keywords to Flair vs. Rhodes were chemistry and a natural rivalry. Hayes chants, “Egos.†J.R. says they would try to outdo one another with mink coats and Mercedes. Rhodes loved the Boston Celtics and Flair loved the Los Angeles Lakers. They had rivalries in football, basketball, and every walk of life and they carried the rivalry into the ring with them to have some of the most emotional matches he ever seen. He said the best thing was the interview segments. They had their bullet points and nobody wrote anything for them. They spoke from their hearts and it made the rivalry as good as any of that era. They did it by talking and barely ever wrestling on television.
They show Dusty’s “That’s Hard Times†interview and I never get tired of watching and hearing it. It’s amazing how much he sounds like Southern Baptist preacher who led the many sermons I attended during my childhood. I never realized the first 100 times I saw the interview how much he resembles Axl Rotten in the segment.
Bischoff says he didn’t know much about the Flair-Rhodes feud when he came to WCW. He says he had to sit them down over a couple drinks and the tension and competition was really in their hearts. He said Flair is a very emotional guy and if you strike a chord with him, you could just give him a microphone and sit back and count the money.
J.R. talks about Flair’s recent promo he cut backstage on Carlito when he dressed him down and everyone was talking about it. J.R. believes Flair believed every word of the promo. They show the promo and I love it even more this time than when I watched it on Raw. Foley said he has a history with Flair and Bischoff asks, “He tried to beat your ass, too?†Foley laughs and says they were sat down after their altercation and they’ll never be close friends, but he called Flair after he watched that promo and told him it hit home with him and it was one of the best things he ever seen. He says when he & Flair had their program last year, Foley said some nasty things about him but knew Flair could knock it out of the park.
Lawler says the fans on the Internet say it’s too much talk and not enough wrestling, but they all realize that wrestlers talk the fans into the arenas and it’s been that way forever. He says nobody has been better at talking fans into the arenas than Flair and Rhodes.
Hayes talks about Rhodes learning from Eddie Graham and when Rhodes went to Charlotte and turned the territory around. He says he did it by Dusty loving Dusty, but that Rhodes knew Flair was already there. J.R. says Flair and Jim Crockett were buddies and Flair was the incumbent star when Dusty arrived. Hayes said that Flair was the best man at Crockett’s wedding and the Freebirds ruined the bachelor party. The Freebirds just did a show at Texas Stadium and Flair and Crockett picked them up from the airport in Raleigh to work with the Road Warriors. They went to the party and Hayes is sitting with Terry Gordy and the Road Warriors. Hayes says Flair told them that Buddy Roberts spit in Harley Race’s face, so Race slapped Roberts. Hayes says he headbutted Flair and the whole NWA, including Race and Wahoo McDaniel, wants to kick the Freebirds’ asses. Hayes says it wouldn’t have taken the whole NWA, just Wahoo and Race or Race alone. The Freebirds went from being a prized possession to having 40 cops escort them out.
Foley tells a story about Roberts looking around the building in Hammond, Indiana and saying it’s where he pissed on Verne Gagne. Hayes corrects Foley and says it was him who peed on Gagne, as Roberts was back home with his wife and their newborn first child at that time. J.R. says he’s glad they got urination out of the way and Hayes says, “If you’re going to talk about the Freebirds, you’ve got to talk about urination.â€ÂÂÂÂ
Lawler tries to turn the discussion back to Flair vs. Rhodes and Hayes asks him if he has a tape of himself beating Dusty, because he has a tape of himself beating everyone else (referring to a tape Lawler marketed in Memphis where they clipped the finishes of some matches with big stars to make it seem he pinned the opponent). Lawler says you’ve got to have an ego in this business, and you won’t be successful if you don’t go into the ring thinking you’re as good as anybody else in the business. He says Flair and Rhodes had that and then some. Lawler says that after his empty arena match with Terry Funk, he was brought down to Tampa and the video was shown to build their match. Dusty went to Dory Funk, Jr., who was the booker at the time, and had the card changed so he would have the main event match instead of Terry Funk and Lawler. Lawler went out and did his match and said Rhodes left a photo signed, “To the King, Sorry you were on before me.â€ÂÂÂÂ
Bischoff says anyone in the entertainment business is probably driven largely by their ego, including himself. Hayes says, “Not you†and Bischoff says he has a healthy ego and he feeds it regularly. He says Flair and Rhodes both also had the ability to be tremendous politicians. He says he lived through that.
Foley says he was brought into WCW in ’89 with Flair as the booker and again in ’91 with Rhodes booking. He says he got to know Rhodes, but didn’t know Flair until he got punched in the face by him last year in Huntsville. He asks if Rhodes likes people who impersonate him and Hayes says everyone does it. He says Rhodes told a story of Race taking a bump and rolling down flights of stairs and Cactus did it down three flights that night. Foley got home banged up before he realized Rhodes knew he would hear the story and volunteer to do it. He doesn’t know if it was a good idea or if Rhodes just told the story really well. He says he’s seen great ideas pitched horribly and bad ideas that were pitched great, and he didn’t know if Rhodes’ ideas were great or presented well.
J.R. says if he were a promoter and he had ten draft picks, he would put Flair and Rhodes on the list because you know you’re going to have entertaining television. Hayes lobbies for the Freebirds, Foley, and Lawler to be added to the list, but J.R. ignores him. J.R. says lobbying was necessary because star wrestlers like Verne Gagne, Bill Watts, and Eddie Graham became owners of their territories, it became a game of politics and manipulation. Bischoff calls it survival skills He says had money and was out of shape, so he asked him why he continued to work. Watts told him, “It’s because I know I can depend on me. I’m not going to screw me.â€ÂÂÂÂ
Hayes puts over the chemistry between Flair and Rhodes in the ring but says there was a lot of animosity between them and competition for Crockett’s attention. J.R. says when Watts sold UWF to Crockett they treated it like garbage and it went down the toilet. Lawler asks if that sounds familiar, like it’s been done since. Hayes asks, “Like Vince buying WCW?†J.R. says on that note, while they still have jobs, they’ll wrap up the broadcast.
The next episode of Legends of Wrestling will feature wrestling’s biggest heat-seekers, the guys who caused the most problems behind the scenes.
This one program made my subscription to WWE 24/7 worth the $7.99 per month. It was awesome! I felt like a fly on the wall backstage listening to some of the old-timers reminisce and they seemed to really enjoy talking about the past.
Snuka and Muraco’s feud has been given plenty of attention in recent years, so the talk about their feud wasn’t too thrilling. The Rock-n-Roll Express vs. Midnight Express feud was an excellent piece that also answered a lot of questions about the decline of tag team wrestling. Flair vs. Rhodes was entertaining and the panel, especially Bischoff and Lawler, did a nice job of justifying the reason some stars have to carry themselves the way they do and why they sometimes clash.
Hayes interrupted a lot and he liked incorporating himself and the Freebirds into a lot of stories, but he seemed to be having fun. Bischoff didn’t say a whole lot, but when he did he offered a great perspective on the business side of things. I'd love to see him give a shoot interview. Maybe I should pick up a copy of his book. If anyone has read it, please let me know if it's worth the money. Lawler also has some great stories and it was interesting to listen to him and J.R. both defend their territories. Foley had some good stories, but hearing the hitchhiking to MSG for Snuka vs. Muraco in the cage story wasn’t too exciting because I’ve already read and heard the story, as have most fans. J.R. did a great job hosting even though he went a little too far out of his way at times to put over Mid-South. Then again, it’s his original home so I can respect that.
If you have a chance to see this, I’m sure you’ll agree that a two- or three-DVD set with these Legends of Wrestling roundtable discussions would be a must-have! If I had any say in it, rather than having short clips of different wrestlers talking about certain matches or topics on each WWE DVD collection that is released, I’d have a Legends of Wrestling roundtable discussion for each DVD. Imagine what a great addition to the Ultimate Ric Flair Collection it would have been if Rick Steamboat, Arn Anderson, Tully Blanchard, Bobby Heenan, Harley Race, Dusty Rhodes, and maybe even Vince McMahon had a one-hour discussion about his career on one of the discs.
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